Den Haag: Width of the territorial sea.

Korpen · April 17, 2007, 08:05:55 AM

Statement from the forgien department of the Netherlands:
"In light of the many questions and debates about the extent of territorial sea that should be admitted sovereign countries, the organisation has decided have this topic raised in a separate setting. And this tabel if for that discussion, so we put the question to you hounroued delegates, how much sea should belong to a soverigen stat?"

Four different calims are pressent im the world, most counties claim a 3nm limit, but a few claim either a 6nm (Iberia), 12nm (UNK) or 20nm (Middle KIngdom) limit.

maddox · April 17, 2007, 08:17:19 AM

France supports the Iberian 6 miles limit.

Borys · April 17, 2007, 09:52:41 AM

The Habsurgs are happy with 3 nautical mile limit. The rest is God's

The Rock Doctor · April 17, 2007, 11:51:02 AM

Gran Colombia claims a six mile limit from its continental coasts and major islands. In the case of island group possessions, such as the Galapagos or Caymans, baselines will be drawn around the exterior of the island group and those waters within the baselines will also be claimed as territorial.

Gran Colombia commits to cooperative boundary demarcation with its neighbours.

Ithekro · April 17, 2007, 01:09:44 PM

Rohan has operated to the ends of visual range so that any vessel entering sight of the Kingdom of Rohan might know that they are under the protection of the Riddermark, and that the enemies of Rohan might dread the sight of our coasts.

This appears to equate to the 12 nm distance proposed by the United Norman Kingdoms and the United States of New Switzerland.

Carthaginian · April 17, 2007, 03:30:03 PM

The Confederate States of America will hold it's final judgment until the end of the conference, however, we say that anything beyond 3 nautical miles and within the bounds of reason suffices as excellent. We will say that the suggestion made by the UNK, NS, and Rohan of 12 nm seems to be the rough extent of 'the bounds of reason,' as there is no way for certain to detect the presence ships reliably beyond this range, save with a continual string of patrol craft around one's coast.

Borys · April 17, 2007, 03:44:48 PM

12 nautical miles puts several important straits - Pas de Calais, Straits of Gibraltar, Sicilian Channel, Bab el Mandeb etc. into territorial waters category. Unless FREE innocent passage through territorial waters - be it of merchants or warships - is not included, the Habsburg Monarchy will not sign.

maddox · April 17, 2007, 11:51:33 PM

Pas de Calais is already congested with traffic. It's just waiting for a disaster to happen. And territorial waters or not, it will happen.

If the traffic trough Pas de Calais is regulated, by the UK and/or France, chances on such a disaster will diminish, but not go away. But then, at least, messures can be taken to assure such a disaster won't occure again.

If the 6 miles zone is accepted, the 11 miles "undisputed" international waters can still be the anarchistic idiocy it is now.
But at least France can assure a safe passage trough the "territoral waters" then. In the proposed minimum 3 miles zone to much sandbars, rocks, islets and other obstacles will severely restrict the sailing, and impede the natural growth of the economy of all involved.

Another solution for the straits,narrows and other limited manouver room waters is to agree on an international law concerning shipping conduct and rules on navigation. The early beginnings are there already, like the red and green port and starboard running lights on vessels, and the buoy rules followed by most of us.

Habsburg delegate, France never impeded the free and innocent travel trough the 7 seas. And is not even contemplating this in any respect. And not signing these very sencefull laws would be a mark of arrogance. We are just bickering about the finer points and a few numbers, not on the essence of the matter.

On the point of view of the Middle kingdom with the reach of large guns in this case 20 miles, or the UK and Rohirrim stance on visibility , 12 miles as spoken of, these are matters that will change in the nearby future, as these are matters of fysics and technology. The writer Jules Verne could imagine a gun that can shoot the moon, other visionairs see possibilities to see trough darkness as a cat does. And if man can imagine something, sooner or later it becomes true.

That is another matter why France is opting for the limited 6 miles zone. These 6 miles are nautical miles, for France 11112 meters. It is a great consession of France to agree on a non metric messurment. Otherwise we would ask for a 10 km zone.
But all in all, we're not here to restrict trade, but to make it clear to everybody what and were national laws stop and start.

Phoenix · April 18, 2007, 07:39:29 AM

It seems that the Middle Kingdom has the largest territorial waters claims in the world. We had thought it prudent to set the limit as "as far as our guns can shoot". We are however not ignorant of scientific innovation and agree that a more scientific method for setting this distance should be considered.
The proposal of the honourable envoy of the Kingdom of Rohan has merit. I doubt we would tinker with a man's eyes so easily as to give him the sight of a telescope, so let us take the human eye as a measure. This coincides with the belief that man is the paragon of creation and that his eye-sight must by the same reasoning be a Celestial Measure.

maddox · April 18, 2007, 10:21:56 AM

Minister Capet

Honorable Prince Pu Lun, please try my goggles...

Korpen · April 18, 2007, 10:36:35 AM

Quote from: maddox on April 18, 2007, 10:21:56 AM
Minister Capet

Honorable Prince Pu Lun, please try my goggles...

Considering that you must be 33m up to see (the horizon) 12nm out due to the curvature of the earth, a man standing at sea level can see the horizon 3nm out. Goggles will no help you fee further.

Carthaginian · April 18, 2007, 10:48:54 AM

Quote from: Korpen on April 18, 2007, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: maddox on April 18, 2007, 10:21:56 AM
Minister Capet

Honorable Prince Pu Lun, please try my goggles...
Considering that you must be 33m up to see (the horizon) 12nm out due to the curvature of the earth, a man standing at sea level can see the horizon 3nm out. Goggles will no help you fee further.

This seems as good a reason as any to remain with the 3nm figure.

swamphen · April 18, 2007, 10:56:10 AM

"The Reich agrees that three nautical miles is a reasonable and prudent limit."

(ooc: The DKB might be willing to agree to 6nm. But nothing more.)

maddox · April 18, 2007, 01:09:51 PM

Even the light elevation of Pas de Calais makes it possible to see the UNK , and that's more than 40 km.

Borys · April 19, 2007, 10:06:52 PM

That is c.25 nautical miles, and there are elevations at both sides.
The monarchy does not see any need for extension of territorial waters beyond 3 miles.
Austria-Hungary does no see any direct connection between heavy traffic in places like the the Pas de Calais and extent of territorial waters. If France is so concerned with it, maybe build a tunnel to cut down on ferry movement perpendicular to that of merchants and the oh-so-numerous warships?

Imre Nagy, Hungarian Delegate