Maps

[Borys]

Ahoj!
It was Austria which won the 3rd battle of the Taiwan Straits. I need to keep Namibia Austrian.

Or, maybe there is no New Swiss at all?

This is becoming silly ...

The cut off date is late December 1904, everything before that "happened".

Desertfox, if you are unhappy with the NS as they ARE, and as YOU made them to be, ditch them. The most you can hope for is to mutate them somewhat, BUT retaining their late 1904 strenght.

Borys

[P3D]

IIRC the only worthwhile contribution from NS to the 3rd Battle of Taiwan Straits was providing targets to Chinese TBs and subs. The Austrian fleet was stronger than the Swiss battleline alone, especially with the assisting Chinese TBs.

[Desertfox]

One of the main points of Nav 3 was to fix problems, and I have some problems with NS I want to fix.

3rd Taiwan per Navalism 2 was an Austrian defeat, Austria lost Namibia there, and if you dont want me to change NS I dotn see why you get to change Austria.

 

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I was trying to point out the absurdity of your argumentation - I need this or that, so let's change this or that in my favour.

And the problem fixing is not at country level, but at game level. From the viewpoint of the game, there is absolutely no problem whatsoever with the NS.

Borys

[Desertfox]

Lets see, I ask for Alaska, Oh I already have that and theres nothing there! I ask for Australia, Oh its already mine! I ask for Souther Phillipines, Oh I was just about to conquer that! Hmm I dont ask for Japan, Korea, or anything else. What  I asked for is entirely reasonable.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
But why should you get it?
Borys

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Maybe this time the map will go up. Ignore the countries' list - I still haven't figured out how to get rid of it.
I am against the Caspian Sea connected to the Persian Gulf. At a pinch I could accept the Don as as Strait. The separation between Asia and the Middle East is a can worms. First thing - HOW did the Turks get there?

Now, please tell me briefly what happend in the Pacific?

[Desertfox]

Ive been trying to tell you, go back some pages in this thread, should say what happened.

[Alikchi]

I am against the Caspian Sea connected to the Persian Gulf. At a pinch I could accept the Don as as Strait. The separation between Asia and the Middle East is a can worms. First thing - HOW did the Turks get there?

Agred, agreed and agreed.

[Ithekro]

Okay we have roughly to toss up between these maps.

A)  No seperation between Middle East and Persia


B) Seperation between Middle East and Persia wit an enlarged coast and access for New Zion both north and south.


As to what happened in the Pacific...we got creative.

I'd prefer if the New Swiss still made their mistakes because a lot of relational things are taken from the failure to make peace in Asia.  Also how are you going to learn from your mistakes if you hit reset everytime you make one.   Reworking the war and relationship issues with the Japanese doesn't work right in all reguards.  I they are to be made null and void, the New Swiss need a restart....perhaps even the UKA needs a restart to settle the disputes between the players at this junction.   You will probably just reform it to something very close to what it is now, but cleaned the slate so to speak.  This might also help Rohan's relationship with the Middle Kingdom, which was very respectful before the Swiss muddled things up against Rohan's suggestion.

The UKA disput seems to be over territory, sea lanes and positioning rather than infrustructure, where the NS dispute is over infrustructure, and a rewritting of history to reflect well on something that went horribly wrong.

I'd say there should be a compromise, if the nations are not reworked from scratch.

NS still have gone to war with the Middle Kingdom, Spain, and Austria.  Lost to the Middle Kingdom with the lose of all continental possessions.  Defeated Spain and Austria's local forces, partly due to the Taal explosion.  Crippled Austrian and Spanish forces retreate leaving the Philippines open for revolt and invasion.  Half of the islands rebel and go independent (Swiss protectorate, no industry, maybe use of manpower and whatever docks and slips are present)  The other half and the island remain Spanish and Austian (You guys can figure out which half, but I'd assume the Carlist would say with their Austrian allies).

Spain remains divided for now.  The Carlist government is more or less an Austian puppet state.  The Socialist government might have fallen to a more legitimate government, and/or integrated with Portugal.  That country can be a new PC while the Carlist part remains a puppet (like Bavaria).   Brazilian adventurism remains the call of France as to what happens in the end.

The UK(A)...hmmm, While getting ride of the E power makes perfect sense, the question is how to justify the positioning of the UK while France is the top dog.  Logical is to make the British Isle, or part of them, a colony of the UKA, sort of a return to Europe sects maybe.  Since France won't give up Normandy to the Norman, take England to be close (and maybe invade it again on a June morning).  However you will have problems with the locals...as they won't particularly like having "Frenchmen" or "Americans" on their lands.  Think of them as Gaelic, Celts, Piks, Scots, Irish, Welsh, and things with up to this time no invasion by William in 1066...you might have Viking types as well...Saxons and Angles, but more or less tribal (clanish) type peoples.  Maybe they've been under the protection of someone for much of this time (the ACM maybe) and with the fall of the Azores, the Normans finally can invade "Angle-land" properly...but only in the last year, with probably protest from France, Austia, Spain, and maybe Rohan.

[P3D]

Alikchi and Borys favors a much more conservative map, with landlocked Kazars. In that case New Zion could be moved to, say Argentina?

We will have to put the map up for a vote. One is  Earth plus enlarged islands plus Zeelandia and modified Rohan.

Two is the one with open Rift Valley and Caspian sea open to the Seas. Plus even more islands, West Australia contraptions and Lemuria.

[Desertfox]

Note: Written before Ithekro's


On the Map, how about a navigable Euphrates with canal? Also the Virgin Islands will be Swiss.


First of all most of the changes where made with adding new players easily in mind. Also most of them can be explaine even easier than the original version of N-Verse. Take France and Normandy for example. In the original version it was a pain to explain how evrything came about with the Essaliyen etc. Now Earl's UKA can be explained with straigth history. No French-Indian War which leads to no American Revolution, but the Souther States do seceed due to slave issues. Straight foward explenation. Now take the Pacific, no need for massive Volcano eruption, no need for Eastern Kingdom. Sino-Japanese War happens as historical only with different results due to stronger China. NS is separate as was my original intention (ask Rocky). Instead of Spanish-American war we have a Swiss-Spanish war. Straight foward logical explenations that dont require alot of rewriting. Only Phoenix is affected and she was planning to do some rewriting.

On the Spanish-Swiss War, Borys you like to keep things realistic. Would you care to explain how the Austrians could send their ENTIRE fleet into the Pacific when nobody wanted them there in the first place? If we keep things realistic we cant  have 3rd Taiwan. Think about it. All I want is to keep NS without the Chinese war. And its perfectly reasonable, no Japan, equals no Korea/Hainan/Shangai, equals no China War, equal stronger NSN, which means NS can win the Swiss-Spanish War having home field advantage. What's the problem in that? Im not taking anything I didnt have, and by 1906 I would have had  the Southern Phillipines (and a war). BTW The Virgin Islands will be Swiss too, I was buying them in Q4/04, gives me a reason  to invest in the Beleriand Canal. Take a look at my fleet list, I have not added a single ship and in fact have ditched a few like the new ACs. What I have asked for in infrastructure is exacly what I would have had I regained Japan in Q1/05 which Maddox actually told me to. :-\

[Borys]

Ahoj!
1 - Is being on the Black Sea make you land-locked?

2 - who holds the Virgin Islands and why is he selling?

3 - Desertfox - hindsightieesm and history re-writing - what happened, happened. OK, so it was unrealistic for the BoP to send his fleet. Great. So he didn't lose Namibia to Orange. So Orange didn't invade Angola. So where do we stop?

Borys

[P3D]

What I have asked for in infrastructure is exacly what I would have had I regained Japan in Q1/05 which Maddox actually told me to. :-\

I know at least of two moderators who don't like such a sudden increse in industry, and consider the NS industry expansion in Navalism between 1902-1903 retrogradely, to be gamey.

[swamphen]

Map A NZ has see access via the Caspian-Black Sea thingy and the Dardanelles. Heck perhaps even more interesting that way - more reason to be mad at the Ottomans.  ;D