Byzantine Empire 1925...

Jefgte · February 25, 2023, 12:55:17 AM

In your rules,
I would like to know if you consider that an AA gun, the 76.2 for example, is also anti-surface?

Or is there a barrier in the use of weapons?
AA is only AA.

Kaiser Kirk · February 25, 2023, 02:52:42 PM

Yes, historical weapons are fine.

Please note in your Navweaps article,
under Mount/Turret Data, they list three different mountings - Mk 1, Mk 2, and Mk 3 :
The Mk 1 and Mk 2 are LA - low angle mountings.
The Mk 3 is the HA mounting. - the AA mount.

Your Springsharp needs to reflect the intended capabilities of the weapon.
And you still need to research that mounting- or have taken it as one of the freebie mounts when you developed the 47mm.
There is not a "HA' toggle for us, so if those guns are meant to be able to engage AA targets, they need to have that shown as 'AA'.

We can generally presume that guns dedicated for AA can also be pointed down and used for MTB work,
but most LA mounts simply can't elevate, probably can't track fast enough, and won't have any AA sites.

Further, there is actually a weight difference in SS.
For something like a 47mm it is trivial. For larger guns it adds up.
So the QF/AA/DP should be set to the right number.
100 x 47mm in "QF" - 58 tons for the mountings
100 x 47mm in "AA" - 61 tons for the mountings
only 0.03 tons per mounting on 47mm, as I said trivial, but demonstrates
the concept and is a fair bit more for larger guns.

Now, can non-AA guns be used in a AA role ?
Sure, sometimes.
A local author who served in WWII as a casement 5"/51 gunner on the USS Maryland described
using the casement 5" for Barrage fire vs. torpedo planes....but barrage fire against low level attackers
is simpler than tracking a dive bomber.

Jefgte · February 25, 2023, 04:58:44 PM

Finaly refurbishment not too expensive...

0.708$ & 0.379BP

TGB550 ex D3, Byzantine Empire TGB laid down 1901 (Engine 1925)

Displacement:
   550 t light; 580 t standard; 629 t normal; 669 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (246,06 ft / 246,06 ft) x 24,61 ft x (9,09 / 9,47 ft)
   (75,00 m / 75,00 m) x 7,50 m x (2,77 / 2,89 m)

Armament:
3 - 4,00" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal gun - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 220 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1925 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 raised mount
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 900 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 0,30" / 7,6 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 124 lbs / 56 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 8 000 shp / 5 968 Kw = 25,20 kts
   Range 3 100nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 89 tons

Complement:
   62 - 81

Cost:
   £0,059 million / $0,237 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 23 tons, 3,7 %
     - Guns: 23 tons, 3,7 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 1,0 %
     - Armament: 7 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 242 tons, 38,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 181 tons, 28,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 79 tons, 12,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 97 tons, 15,4 %
     - Hull below water: 61 tons
     - Hull above water: 5 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 29 tons
     - Above deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     271 lbs / 123 Kg = 8,5 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 11,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,400 / 0,408
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   24,00 %, 15,49 ft / 4,72 m, 14,17 ft / 4,32 m
     - Forward deck:   25,00 %, 8,92 ft / 2,72 m, 7,35 ft / 2,24 m
     - Aft deck:   26,00 %, 7,35 ft / 2,24 m, 7,35 ft / 2,24 m
     - Quarter deck:   25,00 %, 7,35 ft / 2,24 m, 7,02 ft / 2,14 m
     - Average freeboard:      9,27 ft / 2,83 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 147,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 727 Square feet or 346 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 142 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,69
      - Longitudinal: 1,62
      - Overall: 0,75
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

1909 refit
1t for new rangefinder
10t for Marconi

1925 refurbisment
new engines - turbines 8000shp
61t for electric drive
new 102mm guns with 2t rangefinder - 14km
9t for 3TTx533
5t climatisation
5t for hydrophone
5t for 50 DC
10t for paravanes

D3 > TGB550	500t => 550t		$	BP
	500 x 0,2		0,1	0
	new guns	3x102	0,04	0,02	(20t)
	new guns	1x76,2AA	0,0058	0,0029	(2,9t)
	new guns	4x47	0,0128	0,0064	(6,4t)
	new engines	241t	0,482	0,241
	electricdrive	61t	0,12	0,061
Scrapp 15%		Total =>	0,7606	0,3313

	old guns
	old guns	0,019	0,00285	0,00285	(19t)
	old armour	0	0	0
- scrap cost	old engines	330t	0,0495	0,0495
- scrap cost		Total =>	0,05235	0,05235
	0,7606 - 0,05235 =>		0,708$
	0,3313 - 0,05235 =>			0,279BP
			$	BP

Jefgte · March 02, 2023, 12:41:18 AM

The final design

K, Byzantine Empire C10 laid down 1925

Displacement:
   3 000 t light; 3 152 t standard; 3 527 t normal; 3 826 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (433,07 ft / 433,07 ft) x 43,31 ft x (13,88 / 14,74 ft)
   (132,00 m / 132,00 m) x 13,20 m x (4,23 / 4,49 m)

Armament:
6 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
4 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 220 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,35lbs / 1,52kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 771 lbs / 350 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,77" / 45 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Box over machinery & magazines:
   1,77" / 45 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2,76" / 70 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 33 500 shp / 24 991 Kw = 29,01 kts
   Range 8 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 675 tons

Complement:
   228 - 297

Cost:
   £1,068 million / $4,272 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 204 tons, 5,8 %
     - Guns: 204 tons, 5,8 %
   Armour: 629 tons, 17,8 %
     - Armament: 37 tons, 1,1 %
     - Armour Deck: 572 tons, 16,2 %
     - Conning Towers: 20 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 081 tons, 30,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 963 tons, 27,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 527 tons, 14,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 122 tons, 3,5 %
     - Hull below water: 15 tons
     - Hull above water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 47 tons
     - Above deck: 45 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 270 lbs / 1 030 Kg = 21,2 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 14,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,53
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,474 / 0,484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 19,70 ft / 6,01 m, 16,42 ft / 5,01 m
     - Forward deck:   34,00 %, 16,42 ft / 5,01 m, 13,14 ft / 4,01 m
     - Aft deck:   34,00 %, 13,14 ft / 4,01 m, 12,14 ft / 3,70 m
     - Quarter deck:   14,50 %, 12,14 ft / 3,70 m, 12,80 ft / 3,90 m
     - Average freeboard:      14,23 ft / 4,34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 209 Square feet or 1 134 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 272 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,72
      - Longitudinal: 1,03
      - Overall: 0,75
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t for Long Range Marconi
20t for top mast rangefinder - FC1924
15t for climatisation
15t for additionnal pumps
16t for 4TTx21" HW
31t reserved for new materials, armaments or 30 minen

Jefgte · March 25, 2023, 01:52:03 AM

LD in 1900, AC2 class, Bourgas & Bapha, need a major reconstruction to update them to 27kts:
cost 11.58$ & 4,73BP

Bourgas-Bapha, Byzantine Empire AC2 laid down 1900 (Engine 1926)

Displacement:
   12 480 t light; 13 090 t standard; 14 124 t normal; 14 951 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (532,00 ft / 532,00 ft) x 76,00 ft x (19,53 / 20,49 ft)
   (162,15 m / 162,15 m) x 23,16 m x (5,95 / 6,24 m)

Armament:
6 - 9,21" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 380,01lbs / 172,37kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
4 - 9,21" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 380,01lbs / 172,37kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 200 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 4 274 lbs / 1 939 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,12" / 130 mm   518,37 ft / 158,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm     13,12 ft / 4,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   3,54" / 90 mm   518,37 ft / 158,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 150 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,51" / 140 mm   2,95" / 75 mm      3,54" / 90 mm
   2nd:   5,51" / 140 mm   2,95" / 75 mm      3,54" / 90 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 1,38" / 35 mm Quarter deck: 1,38" / 35 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5,51" / 140 mm, Aft 3,54" / 90 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 62 000 shp / 46 252 Kw = 27,01 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 861 tons

Complement:
   647 - 842

Cost:
   £1,129 million / $4,515 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 099 tons, 7,8 %
     - Guns: 1 099 tons, 7,8 %
   Armour: 3 551 tons, 25,1 %
     - Belts: 1 736 tons, 12,3 %
     - Armament: 651 tons, 4,6 %
     - Armour Deck: 1 051 tons, 7,4 %
     - Conning Towers: 114 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 1 985 tons, 14,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 888 tons, 34,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 646 tons, 11,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 955 tons, 6,8 %
     - Hull below water: 600 tons
     - Hull above water: 100 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 120 tons
     - Above deck: 135 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22 353 lbs / 10 139 Kg = 57,2 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,61
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,626 / 0,632
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,07 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18,00 %, 24,50 ft / 7,47 m, 23,00 ft / 7,01 m
     - Forward deck:   33,00 %, 23,00 ft / 7,01 m, 22,00 ft / 6,71 m
     - Aft deck:   33,00 %, 22,00 ft / 6,71 m, 22,00 ft / 6,71 m
     - Quarter deck:   16,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
     - Average freeboard:      21,17 ft / 6,45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 198,4 %
   Waterplane Area: 30 296 Square feet or 2 815 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 627 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,71
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc weight: 955t
110t for 1924 fire control
25t for long range Marconi
32t => 2x4 TT x 533HW
65t for extra pump installation
65t for climatisation
496t for electric drive
162t reserve

----------------------

AC2-Bourgas class-13740t-24kts			Reconstruction 12480t-27kts

			4$ => 1BP	5,496	1,374
		tonnage	coef	$	BP
	new guns	249t	2$ => 1BP	0,498	0,249
	new mounts	850t	1$ => 1BP	0,85	0,85
	new armour	651t	1$ => 1BP	0,651	0,651
	new engines	1985t	2$ => 1BP	3,97	1,985
25%engines	elec motors	496t	2$ => 1BP	0,992	0,496
	new belt	296t	1$ => 1BP	0,296	0,296
	new deck	371t	1$ => 1BP	0,371	0,371
				13,124	6,272
	old guns	188t	15%	0,0282	0,0282
	old mounts	492t	15%	0,0738	0,0738
	old armour	340t	15%	0,51	0,51
	old engines	6188t	15%	0,9282	0,9282
				1,5402	1,5402
Final cost	13,124- 1,5402 =>			11,58$
Final cost	6,272 - 1,5402 =>				4,73BP

------------------------

Original built

AC2, Byzantine Empire AC2 laid down 1900

Bourgas - Bapha

Displacement:
13 740 t light; 14 254 t standard; 15 083 t normal; 15 746 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(532,00 ft / 532,00 ft) x 76,00 ft x (20,86 / 21,62 ft)
(162,15 m / 162,15 m) x 23,16 m x (6,36 / 6,59 m)

Armament:
6 - 9,20" / 234 mm 45,0 cal guns - 392,67lbs / 178,11kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,93lbs / 49,41kg shells, 138 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 192 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
10 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 70,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3 364 lbs / 1 526 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,10" / 130 mm 517,00 ft / 157,58 m 6,90 ft / 2,10 m
Ends: 1,97" / 50 mm 15,00 ft / 4,57 m 5,00 ft / 1,52 m
Upper: 3,55" / 90 mm 517,00 ft / 157,58 m 10,07 ft / 3,07 m
Main Belt covers 150 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,50" / 140 mm 2,97" / 75 mm 3,55" / 90 mm
2nd: 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
4th: 0,80" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0,50" / 13 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,25" / 32 mm
Forecastle: 1,00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1,00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5,50" / 140 mm, Aft 3,55" / 90 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40 000 ihp / 29 840 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 4 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 493 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
679 - 884

Cost:
£1,616 million / $6,463 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 681 tons, 4,5 %
- Guns: 681 tons, 4,5 %
Armour: 2 579 tons, 17,1 %
- Belts: 1 440 tons, 9,5 %
- Armament: 340 tons, 2,3 %
- Armour Deck: 680 tons, 4,5 %
- Conning Towers: 119 tons, 0,8 %
Machinery: 6 188 tons, 41,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 091 tons, 27,1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 343 tons, 8,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 201 tons, 1,3 %
- Hull below water: 12 tons
- Hull above water: 54 tons
- Above deck: 135 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7 447 lbs / 3 378 Kg = 19,1 x 9,2 " / 234 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,49
Metacentric height 6,5 ft / 2,0 m
Roll period: 12,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,626 / 0,630
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 18,00 %, 16,50 ft / 5,03 m, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m
- Forward deck: 33,00 %, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Aft deck: 33,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Quarter deck: 16,00 %, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m, 14,00 ft / 4,27 m
- Average freeboard: 14,45 ft / 4,41 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 149,5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121,1 %
Waterplane Area: 30 296 Square feet or 2 815 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 85 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 542 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,01
- Longitudinal: 0,99
- Overall: 1,00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc weight:
12t => 3 TT x 450 with 3 reloads
54t => 27t for extra pump installation & 27t for extra air ventilation
135t => 68t for Top Fire Control - 1918 - 24km & 10t for short Marconi
57t => reserved

Jefgte · April 03, 2023, 04:17:50 PM

D4 class (500t) is very close to D3 class (500t).
These 1901-1904 -25/26kts destroyers, reclassified torpedo boats in 1918, are rebuilt as TGB in 1925-1926.
These new 550t TGBs are assigned to colonies as patrol boats. During war time, they can use as escorts (DE).

The Byzantine Imperial fleet will thus add 35 x TGB550 (ex D3 and D4).
They will have new guns, new torpedoes and receive 8000SHP turbines for a speed of 25kts.

All other TGB700 or 1000 projects are suspended.

The Byzantine Imperial fleet will have in 1926H2, 62 x TGB from 550T to 800t.
--------------------

D4 to TGB550, Byzantine Empire TGB550 laid down 1904 (Engine 1925)
Refurbishment 1926
0,675$ & 0.275BP

Displacement:
   550 t light; 580 t standard; 629 t normal; 669 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (246,06 ft / 246,06 ft) x 24,61 ft x (9,10 / 9,47 ft)
   (75,00 m / 75,00 m) x 7,50 m x (2,77 / 2,89 m)

Armament:
3 - 4,00" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal gun - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 220 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1925 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 raised mount
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 900 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 0,30" / 7,6 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 124 lbs / 56 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 8 000 shp / 5 968 Kw = 25,20 kts
   Range 3 100nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 89 tons

Complement:
   62 - 81

Cost:
   £0,059 million / $0,238 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 23 tons, 3,7 %
     - Guns: 23 tons, 3,7 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 1,4 %
     - Armament: 9 tons, 1,4 %
   Machinery: 242 tons, 38,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 181 tons, 28,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 79 tons, 12,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 95 tons, 15,1 %
     - Hull below water: 59 tons
     - Hull above water: 5 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 29 tons
     - Above deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     280 lbs / 127 Kg = 8,8 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 11,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,28
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,400 / 0,408
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   25,00 %, 14,44 ft / 4,40 m, 12,14 ft / 3,70 m
     - Forward deck:   25,00 %, 8,86 ft / 2,70 m, 7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     - Aft deck:   25,00 %, 7,87 ft / 2,40 m, 7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     - Quarter deck:   25,00 %, 7,87 ft / 2,40 m, 7,55 ft / 2,30 m
     - Average freeboard:      9,25 ft / 2,82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 146,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 727 Square feet or 346 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 143 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,69
      - Longitudinal: 1,60
      - Overall: 0,75
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

1925-26 refurbishment
new turbines - 8000shp
59t electric drive
new 102mm guns with 2t rangefinder - 14km
9t for 3 TT x 533
5t climatisation
5t for hydrophone
5t for 50DC
10t for paravanes
--------------------

D4 class - 500t-26kts			Refurbishment TGB550-25kts
			20%	0,1	0
		tonnage	coef	$	BP
	new guns	7t	2$ => 1BP	0,014	0,007
	new mounts	16t	1$ => 1BP	0,016	0,016
	new armour	9t	1$ => 1BP	0,009	0,009
	new engines	235	2$ => 1BP	0,47	0,235
25%engines	elec motors	59	2$ => 1BP	0,118	0,059
	new belt	0	1$ => 1BP	0	0
	new deck	0	1$ => 1BP	0	0
		Total =>		0,727	0,326
	old guns	6t		0,006	0,006
	old mounts	12t		0,012	0,012
	old armour	2t		0,002	0,002
	old engines	321t		0,321	0,321
				0,341	0,341
		Total =>	15%	0,05115	0,05115
Final cost	0,727 - 0,05115 =>			0,675$
Final cost	0,326 - 0,05115 =>				0,275BP

Jefgte · April 15, 2023, 04:13:59 PM

BB3 class Kilkis & Lemnos (19420t - 3T2x343 - VTE 21kts) were commissioned in 1904.
They need now a refurbishment with new guns, somme additional armor & new engines (Turbines with electric drive) for 24kts speed & a raises of the forward freeboard by 1.2m to have always "good sea boat".

Cost: 11.3$ & 5BP

Kilkis - Lemnos, Byzantine Empire BB3 laid down 1900 (Engine 1926)

Displacement:
   18 200 t light; 19 231 t standard; 20 255 t normal; 21 073 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (553,00 ft / 553,00 ft) x 85,00 ft x (23,71 / 24,52 ft)
   (168,55 m / 168,55 m) x 25,91 m x (7,23 / 7,47 m)

Armament:
6 - 13,50" / 343 mm 40,0 cal guns - 1 264,99lbs / 573,79kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
8 - 7,52" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1925 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
16 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 39,0 cal guns - 2,01lbs / 0,91kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 raised mounts
16 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 62,0 cal guns - 0,07lbs / 0,03kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      16 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9 914 lbs / 4 497 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   359,91 ft / 109,70 m   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
   Ends:   4,72" / 120 mm   192,91 ft / 58,80 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   5,51" / 140 mm   359,91 ft / 109,70 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,4" / 340 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      12,6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   5,91" / 150 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      4,72" / 120 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm     -         1,00" / 25 mm
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3,35" / 85 mm
   Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1,57" / 40 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 11,81" / 300 mm, Aft 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 48 000 shp / 35 808 Kw = 24,02 kts
   Range 7 825nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 842 tons

Complement:
   848 - 1 103

Cost:
   £1,557 million / $6,229 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 471 tons, 7,3 %
     - Guns: 1 471 tons, 7,3 %
   Armour: 7 414 tons, 36,6 %
     - Belts: 3 584 tons, 17,7 %
     - Armament: 1 599 tons, 7,9 %
     - Armour Deck: 1 948 tons, 9,6 %
     - Conning Towers: 284 tons, 1,4 %
   Machinery: 1 536 tons, 7,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 718 tons, 33,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 055 tons, 10,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 060 tons, 5,2 %
     - Hull below water: 420 tons
     - Hull above water: 120 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 320 tons
     - Above deck: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35 171 lbs / 15 953 Kg = 28,6 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 4,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,636 / 0,640
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,51 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,52 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20,00 %, 26,44 ft / 8,06 m, 22,83 ft / 6,96 m
     - Forward deck:   30,00 %, 19,88 ft / 6,06 m, 17,09 ft / 5,21 m
     - Aft deck:   30,00 %, 17,09 ft / 5,21 m, 17,09 ft / 5,21 m
     - Quarter deck:   20,00 %, 17,09 ft / 5,21 m, 17,09 ft / 5,21 m
     - Average freeboard:      18,95 ft / 5,78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 35 548 Square feet or 3 303 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 740 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,57
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight 1060t:
150t fire control
25t for LR Marconi
150t for Climatisation
150t for extra pump installation
384t for electric drive
20t for 4TTx450+5 reloads
181t reserved
----------------------------

BB3	19420t => 18200t		Reconstruction 18200t-24kts
	19420x 0,2		$x0,2	3,884	0
		tonnage	coef	$	BP
	new guns	487t	2$ => 1BP	0,974	0,487
	new mounts	973t	1$ => 1BP	0,973	0,973
	new armour	1598t	1$ => 1BP	1,598	1,598
	new engines	1536t	2$ => 1BP	3,072	1,536
25%engines	elec motors	384t	2$ => 1BP	0,768	0,384
	new belt	516t	1$ => 1BP	0,516	0,516
	new deck	406t	1$ => 1BP	0,406	0,406
				12,191	5,9
	old guns	467t	15%	0,07	0,07
	old mounts	931t	15%	0,13965	0,13965
	old belt	2042t	15%	0	0
	old deck	1542t	15%	0	0
	old engines	4558t	15%	0,6837	0,6837
				0,89335	0,89335
Final cost	12,191- 0,89335 =>			11,297$
Final cost	5,9 - 0,89335 =>				5,006BP

-------------------------

Original built:

Kilkis - Lemnos, Byzantine Empire BB3 laid down 1900

Displacement:
   19 420 t light; 20 417 t standard; 21 442 t normal; 22 261 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (553,00 ft / 553,00 ft) x 85,00 ft x (25,10 / 25,91 ft)
   (168,55 m / 168,55 m) x 25,91 m x (7,65 / 7,90 m)

Armament:
6 - 13,50" / 343 mm 40,0 cal guns - 1 179,03lbs / 534,80kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1900 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
8 - 7,50" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 212,75lbs / 96,50kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4,00" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 32,28lbs / 14,64kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1900 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 93,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9 164 lbs / 4 157 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   360,00 ft / 109,73 m   11,00 ft / 3,35 m
   Ends:   4,72" / 120 mm   193,00 ft / 58,83 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
   Upper:   5,50" / 140 mm   360,00 ft / 109,73 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,4" / 340 mm   5,92" / 150 mm      12,6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   5,92" / 150 mm   3,95" / 100 mm      4,72" / 120 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm     -         1,00" / 25 mm
   5th:   0,50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2,55" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1,58" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 1,58" / 40 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 11,81" / 300 mm, Aft 5,90" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 29 460 ihp / 21 977 Kw = 21,02 kts
   Range 4 500nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 845 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   885 - 1 151

Cost:
   £2,003 million / $8,012 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 398 tons, 6,5 %
     - Guns: 1 398 tons, 6,5 %
   Armour: 6 412 tons, 29,9 %
     - Belts: 3 071 tons, 14,3 %
     - Armament: 1 504 tons, 7,0 %
     - Armour Deck: 1 542 tons, 7,2 %
     - Conning Towers: 294 tons, 1,4 %
   Machinery: 4 558 tons, 21,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 457 tons, 30,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 022 tons, 9,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 595 tons, 2,8 %
     - Hull below water: 20 tons
     - Hull above water: 200 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 100 tons
     - Above deck: 275 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21 858 lbs / 9 915 Kg = 17,8 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,33
   Metacentric height 6,5 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 14,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,636 / 0,640
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,51 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,52 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20,00 %, 21,20 ft / 6,46 m, 17,60 ft / 5,36 m
     - Forward deck:   30,00 %, 17,60 ft / 5,36 m, 15,80 ft / 4,82 m
     - Aft deck:   30,00 %, 15,80 ft / 4,82 m, 15,80 ft / 4,82 m
     - Quarter deck:   20,00 %, 15,80 ft / 4,82 m, 15,80 ft / 4,82 m
     - Average freeboard:      16,72 ft / 5,10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 35 548 Square feet or 3 303 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 716 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,30
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight 595t:
250t fire control
100t for extra pump installation
100t for climatization
25t for long range wireless
20t for 4TTx450+5 reloads

1906 refit
50t for new 1906 13"5/40
50t reserved

Jefgte · April 23, 2023, 04:02:39 PM

Byzantium reflects on its future destroyers.

Last class: LD 1923:
D11 - 1500t - 4x120+1x76.2+8TTx533 - 32kts - 7500nm@12kts

LD 1926:
Fleet destroyer?
D12 - 1650t - 3T2x120+1x76.2+12TTx533 - 32kts - 8000nm@12kts
(50% stronger than D11 class).
or Super Destroyer?
SD12 - 1600t - 4x140+1x76.2+8TTx533 - 32kts - 8000nm@12kts
(Some countries use 140mm guns on their destroyer).
or Economical destroyers?
D12 - 1350t - 2T2x120+1x76.2+8TTx533 - 32kts - 8000nm@12kts
TGB - 1000t - 2T2x120+1x76.2+4TTx533 - 27kts - 6000nm@12kts

Kaiser Kirk · April 23, 2023, 08:40:37 PM

I expect I'll be building the Leopard ~1500 ton Oceanic DD and Wolf ~ 1100 ton Fleet DD for a while.
I'm already on version II of each. But I need numbers more than big individual hulls.

I see you're not planning a 2000 tonner either. I'll be curious where folks push the DD envelope,
I could see a Porter style flotilla leader in my future, but only after I replace my <1000 ton
DDs in the fleet lineups.

At 12 knots the Palangs can cover 9200nm, but normally run at 16.
That means they have sufficient range at fleet cruise (14) +2 for trans-oceanic,
which is the primary reason for their size difference. Also my ports tend to be 2200nm apart,
so a minimum of 4400nm is required to go there, find the port is not available or has fallen, and return to where I came from,
or continue on to the next.

D12/SD12
The 140mms are good guns, but I think 6x 120 is better than 4x 140...probably.
Even after the ROF penalty for twins or two-gun 120s they probably put a fair bit more shells out than the 4x1 140.
First couple of hits can matter.

Jefgte · April 24, 2023, 03:13:30 AM

Quote...But I need numbers more than big individual hulls...

=> With colonies all over the world.

Quote...D12/SD12
The 140mms are good guns, but I think 6x 120 is better than 4x 140...probably.
Even after the ROF penalty for twins or two-gun 120s they probably put a fair bit more shells out than the 4x1 140...

ROF is better with 6x120 - range 15000m, than 4x140 - range 16000m.

I think the same.
-------------------
For memory, Byzance in 1926H1
64 DD from 1000t to 1500t - 30 to 32kts
51 TGB (DE) from 500 to 800t - 25kts
96 TB (coastal works) from 400t to 750t - 28 to 30kts

The Rock Doctor · April 24, 2023, 04:33:58 PM

I might get to 2,000 t, but I'm pretty satisfied with my U-class (1,883 t) at the moment and might just iterate versions of that for a while.

Smaller second-class destroyers aren't in the works right now. I'll soon have access to 80 t MTB and they will likely become the primary striking element of the Swarm rather than old destroyers. Purpose-built sloops are doing the trade protection thing instead.

Jefgte · April 28, 2023, 11:32:01 AM

Update D11 class (1500t - 4x120+8TTx533-32kts-7500nm-12kts)
to D12 class - 1600t - 3T2x120+12TTx533-32kts-8500nm-12kts)
Not too heavy, always 32kts, range increase by 1000nm & 50% more powerful.

D12, Byzantine Empire Improved D11 laid down 1926

Displacement:
   1 600 t light; 1 681 t standard; 1 938 t normal; 2 143 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (370,71 ft / 367,45 ft) x 35,66 ft x (12,78 / 13,67 ft)
   (112,99 m / 112,00 m) x 10,87 m x (3,90 / 4,17 m)

Armament:
6 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      1 raised mount aft - superfiring
1 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal gun - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      4 raised mounts
2 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 325 lbs / 147 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 36 300 shp / 27 080 Kw = 32,10 kts
   Range 8 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 463 tons

Complement:
   145 - 189

Cost:
   £0,720 million / $2,879 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 52 tons, 2,7 %
     - Guns: 52 tons, 2,7 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0,5 %
     - Armament: 9 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 968 tons, 50,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 454 tons, 23,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 338 tons, 17,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 116 tons, 6,0 %
     - Hull above water: 6 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 80 tons
     - Above deck: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     524 lbs / 238 Kg = 10,0 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 1,6 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 12,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,405 / 0,419
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 18,44 ft / 5,62 m, 15,81 ft / 4,82 m
     - Forward deck:   32,50 %, 15,81 ft / 4,82 m, 12,86 ft / 3,92 m
     - Aft deck:   32,50 %, 12,86 ft / 3,92 m, 12,53 ft / 3,82 m
     - Quarter deck:   17,50 %, 12,53 ft / 3,82 m, 12,53 ft / 3,82 m
     - Average freeboard:      13,93 ft / 4,25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 090 Square feet or 752 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 159 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,30
      - Overall: 0,55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

5t for 1924 top mast rangefinder
25t for LR marconi
6t for climatisation
48t for 4x3TTx533HW
15t for improved Hydrophone
5t for 50x90DC
12t reserved for new material, armament, minen.

4350nm@16kts
Trial speed: 32,5kts
Bonus: 0.51

Jefgte · April 28, 2023, 05:22:24 PM

More economical than D12-1600t.

D1200, Byzantine Empire D1200 laid down 1926

Displacement:
   1 200 t light; 1 256 t standard; 1 433 t normal; 1 574 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (337,86 ft / 334,65 ft) x 33,46 ft x (11,19 / 11,91 ft)
   (102,98 m / 102,00 m) x 10,20 m x (3,41 / 3,63 m)

Armament:
4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal gun - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
2 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
2 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 219 lbs / 99 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 28 800 shp / 21 485 Kw = 31,41 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 318 tons

Complement:
   116 - 151

Cost:
   £0,530 million / $2,121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 42 tons, 2,9 %
     - Guns: 42 tons, 2,9 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 0,5 %
     - Armament: 7 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 716 tons, 50,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 351 tons, 24,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 232 tons, 16,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 85 tons, 5,9 %
     - Hull above water: 5 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 51 tons
     - Above deck: 29 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     417 lbs / 189 Kg = 7,9 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 1,4 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 11,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,21
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,400 / 0,413
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 18,21 ft / 5,55 m, 15,26 ft / 4,65 m
     - Forward deck:   32,50 %, 15,26 ft / 4,65 m, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m
     - Aft deck:   32,50 %, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m
     - Quarter deck:   17,50 %, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m
     - Average freeboard:      13,29 ft / 4,05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 6 893 Square feet or 640 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 146 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,46
      - Overall: 0,55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

4t for1924 top mast rangefinder
25t for LR marconi
16t for 1x4TTx533HW
5t for climatisation
15t for improved Hydrophone
5t for 50x90 DC
10t reserved for new material, armament, minen.

Trial speed: 32kts
Bonus: 0.54

Jefgte · April 30, 2023, 12:41:47 AM

D1200 is a little small. I add 50t to have better DD for colonial works

D1250, Byzantine Empire D12 laid down 1926

Displacement:
   1 250 t light; 1 311 t standard; 1 491 t normal; 1 636 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (337,86 ft / 334,65 ft) x 33,46 ft x (11,65 / 12,39 ft)
   (102,98 m / 102,00 m) x 10,20 m x (3,55 / 3,78 m)

Armament:
4 - 4,72" / 120 mm 45,0 cal guns - 50,00lbs / 22,68kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal gun - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1926 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 225 lbs / 102 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30 000 shp / 22 380 Kw = 31,52 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 326 tons

Complement:
   119 - 156

Cost:
   £0,553 million / $2,211 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 43 tons, 2,9 %
     - Guns: 43 tons, 2,9 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0,6 %
     - Armament: 8 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 746 tons, 50,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 357 tons, 23,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 241 tons, 16,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 95 tons, 6,4 %
     - Hull above water: 5 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 61 tons
     - Above deck: 29 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     420 lbs / 190 Kg = 8,0 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 1,4 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 11,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,21
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,400 / 0,413
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 18,21 ft / 5,55 m, 15,26 ft / 4,65 m
     - Forward deck:   32,50 %, 15,26 ft / 4,65 m, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m
     - Aft deck:   32,50 %, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m
     - Quarter deck:   17,50 %, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m, 11,98 ft / 3,65 m
     - Average freeboard:      13,29 ft / 4,05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6 893 Square feet or 640 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 148 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,48
      - Overall: 0,55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

4t for1924 top mast rangefinder
25t for LR marconi
24t for 2x3TTx533HW
5t for climatisation
15t for improved Hydrophone
5t for 50x90 DC
12t reserved for new material, armament, minen.

Trial speed: 32.5kts
Bonus: 0.98

4270nm-15kts
2100nm-20kts

Jefgte · May 01, 2023, 09:35:31 AM

Successor to the 32 x 500t Mayyun class - 1923 - 1925

Hanish class, Byzantine Empire T500 laid down 1926

Displacement:
   500 t light; 522 t standard; 561 t normal; 591 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (244,06 ft / 242,78 ft) x 24,05 ft x (8,40 / 8,70 ft)
   (74,39 m / 74,00 m) x 7,33 m x (2,56 / 2,65 m)

Armament:
2 - 4,00" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
2 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 72 lbs / 33 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14 500 shp / 10 817 Kw = 29,47 kts
   Range 3 900nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 69 tons

Complement:
   56 - 74

Cost:
   £0,208 million / $0,833 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 13 tons, 2,4 %
     - Guns: 13 tons, 2,4 %
   Armour: 6 tons, 1,0 %
     - Armament: 6 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 280 tons, 50,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 174 tons, 31,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 60 tons, 10,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 27 tons, 4,8 %
     - On freeboard deck: 26 tons
     - Above deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     182 lbs / 82 Kg = 5,7 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 0,7 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 12,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,400 / 0,407
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,10 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18,00 %, 14,63 ft / 4,46 m, 12,66 ft / 3,86 m
     - Forward deck:   33,00 %, 12,66 ft / 3,86 m, 10,37 ft / 3,16 m
     - Aft deck:   33,00 %, 10,37 ft / 3,16 m, 10,37 ft / 3,16 m
     - Quarter deck:   16,00 %, 10,37 ft / 3,16 m, 11,02 ft / 3,36 m
     - Average freeboard:      11,35 ft / 3,46 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 168,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 594 Square feet or 334 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 56 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 116 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 2,79
      - Overall: 0,59
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

1t for top fire control
24t for 2x3TTx533 HW
2t engines ventillation

216nm@29kts
587nm@21kts
4900nm@9kts
Trial speed: 32kts
Bonus: 2.54