Byzantine Empire 1925...

TacCovert4 · February 02, 2023, 10:02:25 PM

I've generally given up on 32kt cruisers. 28 to 30 has proven more than adequate.

Jefgte · February 06, 2023, 04:32:50 PM

I have 2 projects for 1925 - 3000t:
- A Colonial Armored Gunboat with 3T2x191 - 27kts - box 60mm
- A light squadron cruiser with 3T2x152 - 29kts - box 45mm
Which one to choose ? ...

AGB3000, Byzantine Empire Colonial Armored Gun Boat laid down 1925

Displacement:
   3 000 t light; 3 208 t standard; 3 563 t normal; 3 848 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (428,12 ft / 426,51 ft) x 44,88 ft x (13,46 / 14,25 ft)
   (130,49 m / 130,00 m) x 13,68 m x (4,10 / 4,34 m)

Armament:
6 - 7,50" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
4 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
1 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal gun - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1925 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 357 lbs / 615 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,76" / 70 mm   1,18" / 30 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Box over machinery & magazines:
   2,36" / 60 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3,94" / 100 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 26 000 shp / 19 396 Kw = 27,07 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 640 tons

Complement:
   229 - 299

Cost:
   £1,163 million / $4,654 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 310 tons, 8,7 %
     - Guns: 310 tons, 8,7 %
   Armour: 682 tons, 19,1 %
     - Armament: 52 tons, 1,5 %
     - Armour Deck: 610 tons, 17,1 %
     - Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 832 tons, 23,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 074 tons, 30,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 564 tons, 15,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 102 tons, 2,9 %
     - Hull above water: 10 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 36 tons
     - Above deck: 56 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 522 lbs / 1 144 Kg = 12,0 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 14,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,89
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,484 / 0,494
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18,00 %, 18,37 ft / 5,60 m, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
     - Forward deck:   33,00 %, 15,09 ft / 4,60 m, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m
     - Aft deck:   33,00 %, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m, 11,81 ft / 3,60 m
     - Quarter deck:   16,00 %, 11,81 ft / 3,60 m, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m
     - Average freeboard:      13,45 ft / 4,10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 572 Square feet or 1 168 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 311 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,72
      - Longitudinal: 1,03
      - Overall: 0,75
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

31t for top mast rangefinder 1924
25t for long range Marconi
16t for 1x4TTx533HW
10t for climatisation
18t reserved for new material, armament...

----------------------------

K class, Byzantine Empire C10 laid down 1925

Displacement:
   3 000 t light; 3 154 t standard; 3 529 t normal; 3 829 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (433,07 ft / 433,07 ft) x 43,31 ft x (13,89 / 14,75 ft)
   (132,00 m / 132,00 m) x 13,20 m x (4,24 / 4,50 m)

Armament:
6 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 190 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
4 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,20lbs / 1,45kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 745 lbs / 338 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,77" / 45 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Box over machinery & magazines:
   1,77" / 45 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2,76" / 70 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 33 490 shp / 24 983 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 8 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 675 tons

Complement:
   228 - 297

Cost:
   £1,064 million / $4,255 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 199 tons, 5,6 %
     - Guns: 199 tons, 5,6 %
   Armour: 629 tons, 17,8 %
     - Armament: 37 tons, 1,0 %
     - Armour Deck: 572 tons, 16,2 %
     - Conning Towers: 20 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 083 tons, 30,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 966 tons, 27,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 529 tons, 15,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 124 tons, 3,5 %
     - Hull below water: 15 tons
     - Hull above water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 49 tons
     - Above deck: 45 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 289 lbs / 1 038 Kg = 21,4 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 14,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,474 / 0,484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 19,70 ft / 6,01 m, 16,42 ft / 5,01 m
     - Forward deck:   33,00 %, 16,42 ft / 5,01 m, 13,14 ft / 4,01 m
     - Aft deck:   33,00 %, 13,14 ft / 4,01 m, 12,14 ft / 3,70 m
     - Quarter deck:   16,50 %, 12,14 ft / 3,70 m, 12,80 ft / 3,90 m
     - Average freeboard:      14,21 ft / 4,33 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 209 Square feet or 1 134 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 272 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,72
      - Longitudinal: 1,03
      - Overall: 0,75
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t for Long Range Marconi
15t for top mast rangefinder - FC1924
15t for climatisation
15t for additionnal pumps
16t for 4TTx21" HW
33t reserved for new materials, armaments or 32 minen

The Rock Doctor · February 06, 2023, 04:55:17 PM

Is the box a slab above the mags/machinery, or do we also understand it to be bulkheads and belts around the mags/machinery? I've never really been clear on this.

Kaiser Kirk · February 07, 2023, 04:17:21 PM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on February 06, 2023, 04:55:17 PM
Is the box a slab above the mags/machinery, or do we also understand it to be bulkheads and belts around the mags/machinery? I've never really been clear on this.

From my tinkering, it's boxed bulkheads about 3.5m high capped by an armored roof.

The Rock Doctor · February 08, 2023, 12:52:01 PM

I'm not sure the box protection scheme is necessarily a strongpoint given that both ships have 111% of underwater volume used. Does it really save compared to conventional deck/belt schemes?

Both designs really push the limits of speed, protection and armament. The aft battery is a definite compromise.

Jefgte · February 08, 2023, 04:38:55 PM

More traditional SS with 2T2x191+1x191
B60-D40
Recoil reduced to 0.7 so as not to stress the hull too much.

AGB3000, Byzantine Empire Colonial Armored Gun Boat laid down 1925

Displacement:
   3 000 t light; 3 189 t standard; 3 542 t normal; 3 824 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (409,28 ft / 406,82 ft) x 45,93 ft x (13,43 / 14,23 ft)
   (124,75 m / 124,00 m) x 14,00 m x (4,09 / 4,34 m)

Armament:
4 - 7,50" / 191 mm 45,0 cal guns - 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 - 7,50" / 191 mm 45,0 cal gun - 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck and hoist mount, 1925 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
4 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,00lbs / 14,97kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
1 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal gun - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air gun in deck mount, 1925 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck aft
      1 raised mount
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 157 lbs / 525 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,36" / 60 mm   288,71 ft / 88,00 m   9,19 ft / 2,80 m
   Ends:   0,98" / 25 mm   118,11 ft / 36,00 m   7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,76" / 70 mm   1,18" / 30 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   2nd:   2,76" / 70 mm   1,18" / 30 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3,94" / 100 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 26 540 shp / 19 799 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 635 tons

Complement:
   229 - 298

Cost:
   £1,090 million / $4,360 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 307 tons, 8,7 %
     - Guns: 307 tons, 8,7 %
   Armour: 700 tons, 19,8 %
     - Belts: 290 tons, 8,2 %
     - Armament: 51 tons, 1,4 %
     - Armour Deck: 339 tons, 9,6 %
     - Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 860 tons, 24,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 021 tons, 28,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 542 tons, 15,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 112 tons, 3,2 %
     - Hull above water: 10 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 46 tons
     - Above deck: 56 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 788 lbs / 1 265 Kg = 13,2 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
   Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 14,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,70
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,494 / 0,503
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18,00 %, 20,01 ft / 6,10 m, 16,57 ft / 5,05 m
     - Forward deck:   33,00 %, 16,57 ft / 5,05 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
     - Aft deck:   33,00 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m
     - Quarter deck:   16,00 %, 12,47 ft / 3,80 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
     - Average freeboard:      14,40 ft / 4,39 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 383 Square feet or 1 150 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 308 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,71
      - Longitudinal: 1,19
      - Overall: 0,75
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

31t for top mast rangefinder
25t for long range Marconi
16t for 1x4TTx533HW
10t for climatisation
20t reserved for new material, armament...

Kaiser Kirk · February 08, 2023, 07:16:12 PM

So waaaay back when, Snip encouraged me to write the design best practices part of the Ship Design thread.
They are not hard and fast rules, rather things to consider.
Their source is not the best...my various readings... things like comments in Navweaps about when crews complained about rate of turn, or things read in some book somewhere.
They should be somewhat close to reality, but they are not firm can/can't.

All that means that it would be fair for someone overseeing a battle to penalize their performance if they were outside the bounds,
and that person thought the best practices reasonable.

The Two-Gun 191L45 M&H , with a 70mm face and 30mm gunhouse would have a rotating weight of 92 tons.
The shell weight is 97.26kg
There is no power assist tonnage.

Practical Notes on Turrets vs. Mounts.
As a practical matter, mounts from the 1905 artillery tech are designed with gearing to allow guns <255 (10") to be kept on target and best able to use fire control.

As a practical matter, a mount over 45tons rotating weight will be slower to train, power assist or a turret may be recommended. This may be a Twin 152mm/53, or a Single 19cm/45. At weights over 70t, rate of train will be slow and turrets are strongly recommended.

As a practical matter, shells between 60 and 95kg are heavy and the ROF will slowly decrease as the crew gets tired. Power assist will delay this. Hoists are highly recommended.

Shells over 90kg are difficult to handle and are slow to handload. Power hoists and ramming with a turret is recommended.

Jefgte · February 09, 2023, 12:07:17 AM

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_75-45_mk6.php

Kaiser Kirk · February 09, 2023, 08:24:04 PM

The historical Hawkins single mounts are described in that article "This gun and its projectiles were rather heavy for use in a simple, open mount and proved somewhat cumbersome in service."
The article also lists the weight of the single mounting as just over 45tons.

In the case of the ship you posted, you have twin mounts with a substantial amount of armor.
As a result the weight is a great deal more than the single mounts.

If you read further on the Hawkins class I believe you will find that initially they did not have power assist in train and ramming, but that was added later.

Guns and shells these size appear to have been near the upper end of simple muscle powered. . The French 194mm are about the same, the A-H 190mm... this seems to have been
around that upper limit.

And in this design you're proposing putting them in an armored twin mount with no power assist, which you can.

Edit : The gun and mount can certainly be fitted. The gun is powerful and long ranged, and at long ranges the rate of train and fire matter less. So the tradeoffs in performance may be acceptable.
But it is reasonable to assume there would be performance tradeoffs in this arrangement.

Jefgte · February 10, 2023, 01:15:04 AM

For the 3000t, I don't think to use the 191 but the 152 or the 140.
The 152/45 is a bit heavy - 45kg but 19000m range.
The 140/50 is the maximum weight that can be handled with arms - 37.2kg - 16000m range.
The 140's rate of fire is higher than the 152 and more suitable vs light ships.

Kaiser Kirk · February 10, 2023, 11:59:11 AM

Your 3000tonners are making me think I should revisit the Sayyida design, but a big portion of the savings is the lower speed,
and I want my 'frigates' to be faster than the normal cruisers, not slower.

Unfortunately, speed is easier with great length, but that demands a wider beam, and higher freeboard.
All of which are difficult.

I agree that 140-150mm would be better, I just don't have those guns.
I have the slightly too light 130mm, and could do 8x130, and the slightly too heavy 165mm where I can do 4x 165mm.
Parthia was meant to have a 15mm : 90/105/120/135/150/165/180 progression, then I think 25mm : 205/230/255
but the research time & cost meant the 105, 150, 205 got dropped.
Not sure why I have 130 not 135. I think twin 130s fit in single 165 spots or something like that.

The Rock Doctor · February 10, 2023, 12:16:40 PM

Somebody shaved off the other 5mm and diverted it to an offshore bank account.

Kaiser Kirk · February 10, 2023, 04:07:13 PM

Actually I think it got deducted from the 135mm program and added to the 365mm program,
as the latter was originally to be 360mm (345+15).

Scandal Rocks Parthian Navy - Misallocation of millimeters !

Jefgte · February 10, 2023, 04:21:11 PM

I want the 3000t to be at least equal in guns to 2 x 1500t DDs
I choose 29kts because this is the speed of Byzantine Fleet Cruiser (27kts is the speed of Colonial Cruisers).

I re SS 3T2x152
No box but B50-D40-T45 + 2x76.2AA.

K class, Byzantine Empire C10 laid down 1925

Displacement:
   3 000 t light; 3 157 t standard; 3 532 t normal; 3 833 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (433,07 ft / 433,07 ft) x 43,31 ft x (13,91 / 14,77 ft)
   (132,00 m / 132,00 m) x 13,20 m x (4,24 / 4,50 m)

Armament:
6 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 190 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
4 - 4,02" / 102 mm 45,0 cal guns - 32,66lbs / 14,81kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 230 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,20lbs / 1,45kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
4 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 769 lbs / 349 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   337,93 ft / 103,00 m   9,19 ft / 2,80 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,77" / 45 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   5th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2,76" / 70 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 33 500 shp / 24 991 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 8 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 675 tons

Complement:
   228 - 297

Cost:
   £1,068 million / $4,273 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 204 tons, 5,8 %
     - Guns: 204 tons, 5,8 %
   Armour: 634 tons, 18,0 %
     - Belts: 243 tons, 6,9 %
     - Armament: 37 tons, 1,1 %
     - Armour Deck: 334 tons, 9,5 %
     - Conning Towers: 20 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 083 tons, 30,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 966 tons, 27,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 532 tons, 15,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 113 tons, 3,2 %
     - Hull below water: 15 tons
     - Hull above water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 40 tons
     - Above deck: 43 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 283 lbs / 1 036 Kg = 21,3 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 14,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,53
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,474 / 0,484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   17,50 %, 19,85 ft / 6,05 m, 16,57 ft / 5,05 m
     - Forward deck:   33,00 %, 16,57 ft / 5,05 m, 13,29 ft / 4,05 m
     - Aft deck:   33,00 %, 13,29 ft / 4,05 m, 12,16 ft / 3,71 m
     - Quarter deck:   16,50 %, 12,16 ft / 3,71 m, 12,81 ft / 3,91 m
     - Average freeboard:      14,31 ft / 4,36 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 209 Square feet or 1 134 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 272 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,72
      - Longitudinal: 1,04
      - Overall: 0,75
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t for Long Range Marconi
18t for top mast rangefinder - FC1924
15t for climatisation
15t for additionnal pumps
16t for 4TTx21" HW
24t reserved for new materials, armaments or 24 minen
----------------------
Other possibility with 4T2x140
A kind of 29kts Mogador ;)

3000t Super Destroyer, Byzantine Empire-4T2x140-29kts laid down 1925

Displacement:
   3 000 t light; 3 145 t standard; 3 500 t normal; 3 784 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (454,56 ft / 452,76 ft) x 45,28 ft x (14,94 / 15,73 ft)
   (138,55 m / 138,00 m) x 13,80 m x (4,55 / 4,79 m)

Armament:
8 - 5,51" / 140 mm 50,0 cal guns - 81,99lbs / 37,19kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,50lbs / 5,67kg shells, 200 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 3,00lbs / 1,36kg shells, 1 000 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
2 - 0,30" / 7,7 mm 90,0 cal guns - 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
Weight of broadside 693 lbs / 314 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,77" / 45 mm   344,49 ft / 105,00 m   9,19 ft / 2,80 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm      0,79" / 20 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1,57" / 40 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 31 500 shp / 23 499 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 639 tons

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £1,063 million / $4,253 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 219 tons, 6,3 %
     - Guns: 219 tons, 6,3 %
   Armour: 602 tons, 17,2 %
     - Belts: 223 tons, 6,4 %
     - Armament: 36 tons, 1,0 %
     - Armour Deck: 335 tons, 9,6 %
     - Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 1 021 tons, 29,2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 017 tons, 29,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 500 tons, 14,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 141 tons, 4,0 %
     - Hull below water: 15 tons
     - Hull above water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 64 tons
     - Above deck: 47 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2 210 lbs / 1 003 Kg = 26,4 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 14,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,400 / 0,411
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   18,50 %, 17,16 ft / 5,23 m, 13,88 ft / 4,23 m
     - Forward deck:   32,50 %, 13,88 ft / 4,23 m, 11,25 ft / 3,43 m
     - Aft deck:   32,50 %, 11,25 ft / 3,43 m, 11,25 ft / 3,43 m
     - Quarter deck:   16,50 %, 11,25 ft / 3,43 m, 12,57 ft / 3,83 m
     - Average freeboard:      12,52 ft / 3,82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 116,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 618 Square feet or 1 172 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 287 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,73
      - Longitudinal: 0,92
      - Overall: 0,75
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

22t for 1918 top mast rangefinder (18000m)
25t for LR Marconi
15t for climatisation
15t for additionnal pumps
15t for enhanced hydrophone
5t for 50 DC
24t for 2x3TTx533HW
20t reserved for new material, armament or 20 minen...

Kaiser Kirk · February 10, 2023, 07:46:21 PM

The ship is impressive, enough so I wanted to duplicate the hull and then use it for a Sayyidda comparison so I could make a better ship.

In the process, I noticed a flaw -
your Belt length is manually adjusted to 103m/120% normal,
which is 78.03% of hull length.

But your % WL L on the freeboard tab is 17.5% bow and 16.5% stern
with the two amidships areas totaling 66% of the hull length.

That means your 40mm deck only covers 66% of the hull length,
and 12% of your length you have the belt capped by the 25mm end decks.