Norse Placeholders

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:33:44 PM

This thread is to hold the Norse Placeholder designs.

These are used to give an idea of what the final vessel is like,
and the tonnage and armament/armor/speed can all work together.

A design competition will hopefully be held to solicit better designs,
and that can fill in 'slow times'. You know, if we get those :)

I admit that many of the designs were originally Parthian, rearmed with Norse guns.
Others were designed from scratch as 'proof of concept'.

Overall Design Matters
The Norse have tonnage for climate (heaters) starting at 1% and declining to 0.1% as tech got better.

The seakeeping is at least 1.0, no poor seakeeping for the North Sea.
I think there is good argument for "Final" vessels to loose 1 knot of speed, and put the weight into better freeboard and 1.2 seakeeping.

While the transit distance is ~2500nm, most of the fighting areas will be close to bases.
So long distance high speed cruising is not needed. 5-6000nm at 12kts will give ferry/patrol range in the atlantic,
and high speed dashes in the North Sea / Newfoundland arenas.

The players didn't keep the Torpedo Tech up, so 21" torps at 3T is what's fitted.

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:34:25 PM

As previously posted, the 400 ton MS design.

MSW-1, Iberia-Norse Minesweeper laid down 1917

Displacement:
   400 t light; 413 t standard; 446 t normal; 471 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (159.97 ft / 157.48 ft) x 26.25 ft x (6.56 / 6.87 ft)
   (48.76 m / 48.00 m) x 8.00 m x (2.00 / 2.10 m)

Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing gun in deck mount, 1917 Model
     1 x Single mount on sides, forward deck centre
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 39 lbs / 18 kg

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2,399 ihp / 1,790 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 58 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   48 - 63

Cost:
   £0.066 million / $0.264 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 7 tons, 1.7 %
     - Guns: 7 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 145 tons, 32.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 169 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 46 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 78 tons, 17.6 %
     - Hull below water: 5 tons
     - Hull void weights: 42 tons
     - Hull above water: 25 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 5 tons
     - Above deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     592 lbs / 268 Kg = 46.0 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.575 / 0.581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 14.11 ft / 4.30 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m, 11.15 ft / 3.40 m
     - Average freeboard:      12.01 ft / 3.66 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,876 Square feet or 267 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 156 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.80
      - Longitudinal: 7.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Designed as an AUX minesweeper
capable of easy Oceanic transit.

4 boilers, 1 oil-sprayed coal, 3 oil burning.

Norse use 100L45 and 2x 47L45
Iberians use 3x 75L45

Both combinations are 7 tons, and a minimum aux Disp of 360t.

42t Reserve

1.2t FC
0t SR radio
5t Paravanes
25t Minesweeping gear
5t Basic Hydrophones

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:35:02 PM

As previously posted, the 8000t Aux Knarr design

Knarr- Lee, Norse Fleet Supply Vessel laid down 1917

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,231 t standard; 8,618 t normal; 8,928 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (367.45 ft / 360.89 ft) x 65.62 ft (Bulges 72.18 ft) x (21.33 / 21.98 ft)
   (112.00 m / 110.00 m) x 20.00 m (Bulges 22.00 m) x (6.50 / 6.70 m)

Armament:
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 175 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1917 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 584 lbs / 265 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   126.28 ft / 38.49 m   42.65 ft / 13.00 m

- Hull Bulges:
      0.79" / 20 mm   234.58 ft / 71.50 m   21.33 ft / 6.50 m

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 10,500 shp / 7,833 Kw = 18.02 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 696 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   446 - 581

Cost:
   £0.676 million / $2.705 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 125 tons, 1.5 %
     - Guns: 125 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 381 tons, 4.4 %
     - Belts: 235 tons, 2.7 %
     - Bulges: 146 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 393 tons, 4.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,923 tons, 22.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 618 tons, 7.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,178 tons, 60.1 %
     - Hull below water: 3,000 tons
     - Bulge void weights: 60 tons
     - Hull above water: 1,480 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 600 tons
     - Above deck: 38 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,744 lbs / 5,781 Kg = 241.7 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.73
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.543 / 0.546
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   35.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m, 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      15.99 ft / 4.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,418 Square feet or 1,525 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 397 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.95
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Called Knarrs, after the ancient ship type,
the "Lee" class refers the risks of maritime travel and
being driven onto the savage coast of a "Lee Shore"

A ram bow is fitted and equipped for icebreaking.

Additional Structural Steel, recorded under Armor tab :

The "end" armor represents this icebreaking prow, with the 13m height being
from keel to prow, and the 3m width is 6m from the bow.

The vessel is fitted with an external blister (not armored, thickness represents hull steel for weight) as a double-hull to ward against leaks caused from brushing ice flows.

Armanent : 160t max
125t - Guns

Misc Wt.
60t - Resv

AD
13t - FC
25t - LR Radio

OD
600t Fleet Supply

HABW
80 - Climate control
1400t Fleet Supply

HBW
3000t Fleet Supply

Total : 5000 tons Fleet supply, support 50,000 tons.

Decks are 2.45m.
Raised forecastle and stern
4m - Weather Deck
1.55m - Main Deck
-0.9m 2nd Deck / Hold
-3.35m 1st Deck / Hold
-5.8m Engineering
6.5m Keel, double bottom.

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:38:07 PM

Fox's take on Vainamoinian - 4 built in 1917
Final Design 3750 Tons Light.
So slight differences.

One is afloat on the Great Lakes, from the Chicago Drydock.

Quote
Vainamoinen, Norse Coastal Defence Ship laid down 1918

Displacement:
3,723 t light; 4,009 t standard; 4,156 t normal; 4,274 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(310.00 ft / 310.00 ft) x 55.00 ft x (15.80 / 16.15 ft)
(94.49 m / 94.49 m) x 16.76 m x (4.82 / 4.92 m)

Armament:
4 - 9.84" / 250 mm 50.0 cal guns - 504.32lbs / 228.75kg shells, 140 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1918 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 - 6.10" / 155 mm 45.0 cal guns - 114.46lbs / 51.92kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1918 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 - 2.95" / 74.9 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.59lbs / 6.16kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,529 lbs / 1,147 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 210.00 ft / 64.01 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: 1.00" / 25 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 5,565 shp / 4,152 Kw = 17.00 kts
Range 3,000nm at 11.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 265 tons

Complement:
258 - 336

Cost:
£0.829 million / $3.314 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 614 tons, 14.8 %
- Guns: 614 tons, 14.8 %
Armour: 1,109 tons, 26.7 %
- Belts: 497 tons, 12.0 %
- Armament: 179 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 405 tons, 9.8 %
- Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 201 tons, 4.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,564 tons, 37.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 433 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 235 tons, 5.7 %
- Hull below water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 85 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,769 lbs / 2,617 Kg = 12.1 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.543
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.61 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m, 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Average freeboard: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95.7 %
Waterplane Area: 11,788 Square feet or 1,095 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 562 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.40
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

60t - FC
25t - LR Wireless
100t - Torpedo Nets
50t - Electric Motors

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:47:27 PM

Two 6,675 ton CDS ships were built in 1917.
Like the Vainamoinen, they are meant to hide in the Fjords, rivers, and inlets beyond the reach
of enemy heavies, then come out and harass any supply ships/pickets.

If the foe makes convoys - with their supply inefficiency, then the foe will need to allocate
big enough ships to stop these.

They can also be used for gunfire support on amphibious efforts.

From the tonnage, I think used my effort as the Placeholder,
there were several good ones, but it was the upper end of the range
I was looking at for the Norse.
I liked Rocky's 6650 with the all-forward guns,
and Jefgte had a solid 6000ton design.

Unfortunately, my approach to polling needed a lot of work.
Next time better rules and ranked choice.

However, from the design thread
there are obvious several solid ways to go within
this tonnage.

An actual player could choose a beefier Jegte's design, or
combine one of these and a Vainamoinian for one of Tac's Coast battleships.

Quote
Brandenburg layout,
shallow draft and low freeboard.

Since MTBs and DDs can follow it into the shallows
a triple layer torpedo net, bulge and TDS are featured.

Tanngrisnir, Norse Coast Defense Ship laid down 1917

Displacement:
6,650 t light; 7,130 t standard; 7,451 t normal; 7,708 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(392.15 ft / 387.14 ft) x 59.06 ft (Bulges 68.90 ft) x (14.44 / 14.94 ft)
(119.53 m / 118.00 m) x 18.00 m (Bulges 21.00 m) x (4.40 / 4.55 m)

Armament:
6 - 9.84" / 250 mm 45.0 cal guns - 480.81lbs / 218.09kg shells, 165 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1917 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
12 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.20lbs / 1.45kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,370 lbs / 1,529 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.89" / 175 mm 251.64 ft / 76.70 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 135.47 ft / 41.29 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Upper: 1.18" / 30 mm 251.64 ft / 76.70 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1.50" / 38 mm 251.64 ft / 76.70 m 13.85 ft / 4.22 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 37.73 ft / 11.50 m

- Hull Bulges:
0.51" / 13 mm 251.64 ft / 76.70 m 7.87 ft / 2.40 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 6.89" / 175 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.36" / 60 mm
Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 6.89" / 175 mm, Aft 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 10,058 shp / 7,503 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 577 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
400 - 521

Cost:
£1.100 million / $4.399 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 944 tons, 12.7 %
- Guns: 944 tons, 12.7 %
Armour: 2,514 tons, 33.7 %
- Belts: 957 tons, 12.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 193 tons, 2.6 %
- Bulges: 38 tons, 0.5 %
- Armament: 544 tons, 7.3 %
- Armour Deck: 716 tons, 9.6 %
- Conning Towers: 66 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 377 tons, 5.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,377 tons, 31.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 802 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 438 tons, 5.9 %
- Hull below water: 186 tons
- Bulge void weights: 66 tons
- Hull above water: 66 tons
- On freeboard deck: 25 tons
- Above deck: 95 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,078 lbs / 6,386 Kg = 29.5 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.38

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.677 / 0.677
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.62 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 18.70 ft / 5.70 m, 16.24 ft / 4.95 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.24 ft / 4.95 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 13.78 ft / 4.20 m, 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 14.91 ft / 4.55 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.7 %
Waterplane Area: 17,955 Square feet or 1,668 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 564 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.53
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Length :
The KM Brandenburgs were 115.7m long
and fit 3 twin 280mm guns.

Norse docks are 120m so used that limit.

The 8 x 120 are fitted in 8 single mounts
Each shielded against <=155mm splinters.

24 68
A Q X
13 57

Armor :
The deck armor is proof against 350mm splinters.

Misc Wt :
65t - Reserve
95t - FC
0t - SR Radio
25t - Searchlight platform

65- Climate control
66- Damage control
120- Torpedo nets

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:48:46 PM

This was the cruiser class I thought Fox designed,
it was actually Jefgte, in the CDS thread !

Quote
Norse Light Cruiser laid down 1918

Geilo-Gjovik-Gorgen-Gauske

Displacement:
5 800 t light; 6 035 t standard; 6 436 t normal; 6 756 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(491,03 ft / 488,85 ft) x 52,49 ft x (17,04 / 17,69 ft)
(149,66 m / 149,00 m) x 16,00 m x (5,20 / 5,39 m)

Armament:
6 - 6,10" / 155 mm 50,0 cal guns - 120,29lbs / 54,56kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1918 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3,94" / 100 mm 50,0 cal guns - 32,30lbs / 14,65kg shells, 300 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3,19lbs / 1,45kg shells, 500 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 993 lbs / 450 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2,99" / 76 mm 367,45 ft / 112,00 m 10,00 ft / 3,05 m
Ends: 2,01" / 51 mm 118,11 ft / 36,00 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2,99" / 76 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,18" / 30 mm
Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0,98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4,02" / 102 mm, Aft 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 55 000 shp / 41 030 Kw = 30,05 kts
Range 8 000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 721 tons

Complement:
359 - 467

Cost:
£1,142 million / $4,569 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 237 tons, 3,7 %
- Guns: 237 tons, 3,7 %
Armour: 1 029 tons, 16,0 %
- Belts: 514 tons, 8,0 %
- Armament: 106 tons, 1,7 %
- Armour Deck: 370 tons, 5,7 %
- Conning Towers: 39 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 1 984 tons, 30,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 284 tons, 35,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 636 tons, 9,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 266 tons, 4,1 %
- Hull above water: 116 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5 719 lbs / 2 594 Kg = 50,3 x 6,1 " / 155 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04
Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 15,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,515 / 0,521
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,31 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22,11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 17,50 %, 24,93 ft / 7,60 m, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Forward deck: 32,00 %, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m, 21,13 ft / 6,44 m
- Aft deck: 33,00 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Quarter deck: 17,50 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Average freeboard: 17,67 ft / 5,38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115,6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159,6 %
Waterplane Area: 17 334 Square feet or 1 610 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 425 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,95
- Longitudinal: 1,46
- Overall: 1,00
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

25t for Long Range Marconi
24t for 1913 Fire Control
50t for climatisation
50t for additionnal pumps
50t Flag facilities
24t for 8TTx21"
17t reserve

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:50:03 PM

This was my go at the 1920 Norse "Valkyrie" class of cruisers
I have another version on my laptop I may put up.
Better seakeeping on that one as I recall.

Valkyrie, Norse Cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   6,003 t light; 6,265 t standard; 6,994 t normal; 7,578 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (534.60 ft / 528.22 ft) x 51.18 ft x (19.69 / 20.86 ft)
   (162.94 m / 161.00 m) x 15.60 m x (6.00 / 6.36 m)

Armament:
8 - 6.10" / 155 mm 50.0 cal guns - 120.29lbs / 54.56kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 13.63lbs / 6.18kg shells, 500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
8 - 0.30" / 7.5 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,017 lbs / 461 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   438.42 ft / 133.63 m   9.51 ft / 2.90 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 128 % of normal length

- Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   2nd:   0.31" / 8 mm   0.31" / 8 mm      0.31" / 8 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 69,335 shp / 51,724 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 10,270nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,312 tons

Complement:
   382 - 497

Cost:
   £1.552 million / $6.209 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 246 tons, 3.5 %
     - Guns: 246 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 927 tons, 13.2 %
     - Belts: 483 tons, 6.9 %
     - Armament: 40 tons, 0.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 381 tons, 5.4 %
     - Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,424 tons, 34.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,259 tons, 32.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 991 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 147 tons, 2.1 %
     - Hull below water: 25 tons
     - Hull void weights: 30 tons
     - Hull above water: 6 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 41 tons
     - Above deck: 45 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,643 lbs / 2,106 Kg = 40.9 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.460 / 0.470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   12.00 %, 25.59 ft / 7.80 m, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m
     - Forward deck:   33.00 %, 23.29 ft / 7.10 m, 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
     - Aft deck:   50.00 %, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
     - Quarter deck:   5.00 %, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m, 12.47 ft / 3.80 m
     - Average freeboard:      17.02 ft / 5.19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 127.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,388 Square feet or 1,615 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 397 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.87
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Misc Wieght
60t - Const Reserve

25t - LR Radio
31t - FC

36t - 4T3 21" TT
5t - Paravanes

6t - Climatization.

25t - Extra Pumps.

Decks

+6.3 Forecastle
+3.85 Weather Deck
+1.4 Armor Deck
- 1.05
-1.5 Bottom main belt
-3.5 Peirced by engineering
-5.2 Engineering

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:54:33 PM

I am not going to re-sim the Snejkka. I don't like that DD.
We will presume you can put 120mm guns where 155mm guns are.
If we weren't having a little war, I was hoping to put some work into figuring out destroyer refits and the weight changes better.

Originally I called this the Troll and it was to be 1916 Grendel Class.
Which would have taken the place of the Snejkka.
But players, even if brief, should have priority, so the Snejkka stays

..and now it's the 1917 I-Class.

Idun I-Class, Norse Atlantic Destroyer laid down 1917

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,569 t standard; 1,745 t normal; 1,886 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (332.92 ft / 328.08 ft) x 31.50 ft x (12.80 / 13.54 ft)
   (101.47 m / 100.00 m) x 9.60 m x (3.90 / 4.13 m)

Armament:
5 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 210 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.35lbs / 1.52kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 293 lbs / 133 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,010 shp / 27,610 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 5,200nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 317 tons

Complement:
   134 - 175

Cost:
   £0.370 million / $1.481 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 58 tons, 3.3 %
     - Guns: 58 tons, 3.3 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.1 %
     - Armament: 2 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 967 tons, 55.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 403 tons, 23.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 245 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 69 tons, 4.0 %
     - Hull below water: 5 tons
     - Hull void weights: 10 tons
     - Hull above water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 33 tons
     - Above deck: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     419 lbs / 190 Kg = 7.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.462 / 0.472
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 15.58 ft / 4.75 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Aft deck:   30.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.24 ft / 4.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 189.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,658 Square feet or 619 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 59 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 155 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.05
      - Overall: 0.58
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Figuring the Brits sailed the North Sea,
took the hull dimensions of a Thornycroft
type destroyer leader as a guide for a
suitable vessel. Deepened it by 0.09m.

120mm guns are at deck level in A/Q/Y
and superimposed in B/X.
Spray shields are fitted.

10t Reserve

AD
6t FC

OD
18t 2T3 21" Torps
5t anti-mine paravane
2t ASW Harpoons
2t ASW twin-kite paravanes
6t Depth charges

HABW
15t Climate control

HBW
5t Basic Hydrophones

"How about them apples"

Kaiser Kirk · August 12, 2022, 11:59:45 PM

The Jotun class DD.

Main guns :
I put 120s two-gun at "A" and "Y" on a 9.6m , 0.462BC beam.
That seems... a bit unreasonable to me.
I'm inclined to be cautious about such things.
BUT we decided long ago that if springsharp allows it...ok.
So ..ok.

Having 2(1) (1)(2)
Means the waist is free,
so they can mount a pair of AA Guns there.
The Brits liked an elevated platform amidships angled / / so the guns were on the beams but en echelon and could cover the other side, or fore/aft.
So that is what the 75mm design is supposed to be.

Joton J-Class, Norse Atlantic Destroyer laid down 1921

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,575 t standard; 1,745 t normal; 1,882 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (333.01 ft / 328.08 ft) x 31.50 ft x (12.80 / 13.51 ft)
   (101.50 m / 100.00 m) x 9.60 m x (3.90 / 4.12 m)

Armament:
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 210 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.35lbs / 1.52kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1921 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 342 lbs / 155 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,010 shp / 27,610 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 5,640nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 307 tons

Complement:
   134 - 175

Cost:
   £0.515 million / $2.060 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 71 tons, 4.1 %
     - Guns: 71 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.2 %
     - Armament: 3 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 933 tons, 53.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 409 tons, 23.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 245 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 4.8 %
     - Hull below water: 15 tons
     - Hull void weights: 15 tons
     - Hull above water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 31 tons
     - Above deck: 8 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     436 lbs / 198 Kg = 8.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.462 / 0.472
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
     - Aft deck:   30.00 %, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.62 ft / 4.46 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 185.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,658 Square feet or 619 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 157 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.25
      - Overall: 0.58
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Figuring the Brits sailed the North Sea,
took the hull dimensions of a Thornycroft
type destroyer leader as a guide for a
suitable vessel. Deepened it by 0.09m.

Two-gun 120mm guns are at deck level in A/Y
and superimposed in B/X.
Spray shields are fitted.

A pair of 75mm AA is fitted amidships en echelon,
allowing cross-beam fire, or along the fore/aft axis.

10t Reserve

AD
8t FC
0T SR Radio

OD
18t 2T3 21" Torps
5t anti-mine paravane
2t ASW twin-kite paravanes
6t Depth charges

HABW
15t Climate control

HBW
15t enhanced Hydrophones

"Fee Fi Fo Fum"

Kaiser Kirk · August 13, 2022, 12:02:52 AM

An evolution of the Jotuns,
the Kadirs see the introduction of basic sonar.

Right now Norse are thinking of mixing the two in DD squadrons.
The Kadirs being the hunt leader.

Kadir K-Class, Norse Atlantic Destroyer Leader laid down 1922

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,575 t standard; 1,745 t normal; 1,881 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (333.01 ft / 328.08 ft) x 31.50 ft x (12.80 / 13.51 ft)
   (101.50 m / 100.00 m) x 9.60 m x (3.90 / 4.12 m)

Armament:
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 210 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3.35lbs / 1.52kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 342 lbs / 155 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -
   2nd:   0.20" / 5 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37,010 shp / 27,610 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 5,700nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 306 tons

Complement:
   134 - 175

Cost:
   £0.549 million / $2.195 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 71 tons, 4.1 %
     - Guns: 71 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.2 %
     - Armament: 3 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 925 tons, 53.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 407 tons, 23.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 245 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 94 tons, 5.4 %
     - Hull below water: 25 tons
     - Hull void weights: 8 tons
     - Hull above water: 15 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 28 tons
     - Above deck: 18 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     435 lbs / 197 Kg = 8.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.462 / 0.472
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 18.37 ft / 5.60 m, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m
     - Forward deck:   35.00 %, 16.08 ft / 4.90 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
     - Aft deck:   30.00 %, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m, 13.45 ft / 4.10 m
     - Average freeboard:      14.62 ft / 4.46 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 185.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,658 Square feet or 619 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 63 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 156 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.24
      - Overall: 0.58
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide

Figuring the Brits sailed the North Sea,
took the hull dimensions of a Thornycroft
type destroyer leader as a guide for a
suitable vessel. Deepened it by 0.09m.

Two-gun 120mm guns are at deck level in A/Y
and superimposed in B/X.
Spray shields are fitted.

A pair of 75mm AA is fitted amidships en echelon,
allowing cross-beam fire, or along the fore/aft axis.

8t Reserve

AD
8t FC
0T SR Radio
10t - Squadron Plot Room

OD
18t 2T3 21" Torps
2t light anti-mine paravane
2t 2x DC throwers
6t Depth charges

HABW
15t Climate control

HBW
15t enhanced Hydrophones
10t Early Sonar

Kaiser Kirk · August 13, 2022, 12:11:55 AM

I think this was the SS I was using for the tonnage
for "Uller and Skadi".

My Springsharp was named Huginn,
so apparently I was thinking of Odin's ravens,
Huginn and Muninn, bringers of information.

I took a look at the afloat Roman & Wilno ships as I recall,
and considered them the OPFOR for the speed/armor parameters.

This is where the 356mm guns were so very appealing.
They would be nearly as capable, but since the players
had invested in new 405mm guns, it seemed inappropriate
to not then use them. But it really shoves the ship size up.

Ullr, Skadi, Norse Battlecruiser laid down 1917

Displacement:
   41,000 t light; 43,679 t standard; 47,240 t normal; 50,088 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (752.84 ft / 744.75 ft) x 108.27 ft x (32.81 / 34.46 ft)
   (229.47 m / 227.00 m) x 33.00 m x (10.00 / 10.50 m)

Armament:
8 - 15.94" / 405 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,044.19lbs / 927.23kg shells, 160 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
      1 raised mount
16 - 6.10" / 155 mm 50.0 cal guns - 120.29lbs / 54.56kg shells, 246 per gun
     Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1917 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      1 raised mount
     6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.98lbs / 5.89kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,382 lbs / 8,338 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   491.54 ft / 149.82 m   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   253.18 ft / 77.17 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 12.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.24" / 57 mm   491.54 ft / 149.82 m   32.87 ft / 10.02 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m

- Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 1.57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 3.94" / 100 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12.99" / 330 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 172,605 shp / 128,763 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,175nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,409 tons

Complement:
   1,601 - 2,082

Cost:
   £7.368 million / $29.471 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,745 tons, 7.9 %
     - Guns: 3,745 tons, 7.9 %
   Armour: 13,939 tons, 29.5 %
     - Belts: 4,829 tons, 10.2 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,342 tons, 2.8 %
     - Armament: 3,123 tons, 6.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 4,197 tons, 8.9 %
     - Conning Towers: 449 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 6,327 tons, 13.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,949 tons, 33.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,239 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,040 tons, 2.2 %
     - Hull below water: 205 tons
     - Hull void weights: 125 tons
     - Hull above water: 205 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 105 tons
     - Above deck: 400 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     59,009 lbs / 26,766 Kg = 29.1 x 15.9 " / 405 mm shells or 8.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 7.9 ft / 2.4 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.625 / 0.631
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 30.18 ft / 9.20 m, 28.22 ft / 8.60 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 28.22 ft / 8.60 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
     - Aft deck:   36.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarter deck:   14.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:      22.99 ft / 7.01 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 60,362 Square feet or 5,608 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 212 lbs/sq ft or 1,034 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.47
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

A 1918 with a simple vertical belt,

A 5.5m high belt,

190t Reserve

375- FC
25 - LR Radio
25t - Night Fighting

25t - searchlight tower
75t admirals quarters
5t - Paravanes

205- climate control

205- dam control

Decks :
8.0m - Forecastle deck
5.5m - Weather deck
3.0m - battery deck, Armor Deck, top main belt
0.5m - Main Deck - top end belt fore/aft. Top TDS
-2.0m - 2nd deck - botom end belt fore/aft
-2.20 Bottom main belt.
-4.5m - 1st deck
-8.5m - Engineering
-9.5m - Double Bottom

Kaiser Kirk · August 13, 2022, 12:25:40 AM

Walter had built 2 ACs, then 2 BBs.
Fox continued that,
and so after the Ullr class,

Vili and Ve were fairly quick adaptations of one of many Parthian BB designs.
The Norse BBs have been 21 knots, I did do a 23 knot version.
But with the Norse DC and climate tonnage, and the armor established
on the prior class, I'm posting the 21knot.

A player could go with 9 or 10 guns to get that 2 knots back,
or lessen the armor.

Vili, Ve, Norse Battleship laid down 1922

Displacement:
   39,000 t light; 41,955 t standard; 44,430 t normal; 46,410 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (688.55 ft / 682.41 ft) x 111.55 ft x (31.33 / 32.52 ft)
   (209.87 m / 208.00 m) x 34.00 m x (9.55 / 9.91 m)

Armament:
12 - 15.94" / 405 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,358.95lbs / 1,070.00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1922 Model
     3 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 55.82lbs / 25.32kg shells, 227 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
     8 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 55.0 cal guns - 13.89lbs / 6.30kg shells, 500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1911 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 double raised mounts
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 6.61lbs / 3.00kg shells, 800 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1917 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1917 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 29,394 lbs / 13,333 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 355 mm   443.57 ft / 135.20 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 10.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      2.24" / 57 mm   443.57 ft / 135.20 m   38.94 ft / 11.87 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

- Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm   394.52 ft / 120.25 m   23.13 ft / 7.05 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.5" / 420 mm   8.66" / 220 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.38" / 35 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   4th:   0.24" / 6 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.12" / 3 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 4.72" / 120 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 4.72" / 120 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13.98" / 355 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 43,908 shp / 32,756 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 8,072nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,455 tons

Complement:
   1,529 - 1,989

Cost:
   £11.890 million / $47.559 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6,004 tons, 13.5 %
     - Guns: 6,004 tons, 13.5 %
   Armour: 14,534 tons, 32.7 %
     - Belts: 4,054 tons, 9.1 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,434 tons, 3.2 %
     - Armament: 3,783 tons, 8.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 4,805 tons, 10.8 %
     - Conning Towers: 458 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,489 tons, 3.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,746 tons, 35.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,430 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,226 tons, 2.8 %
     - Hull below water: 185 tons
     - Hull void weights: 150 tons
     - Hull above water: 185 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 55 tons
     - Above deck: 651 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     58,338 lbs / 26,461 Kg = 28.8 x 15.9 " / 405 mm shells or 10.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 7.8 ft / 2.4 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.652 / 0.656
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.12 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.12 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 28.87 ft / 8.80 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
     - Forward deck:   20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
     - Aft deck:   45.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m, 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Average freeboard:      19.93 ft / 6.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 58,421 Square feet or 5,428 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 241 lbs/sq ft or 1,175 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.42
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Wt.
150 reserve

601t FC
25t LR Radio
25t NF gear

50t - 2x Floatplanes + Gun cats.
5t - Paravanes

185t - climitization
185t - damage control

Decks
7.3
4.8
2.3 Top Main belt, TDS
-0.2
-2.2 Bottom Main Belt
-2.7

The Rock Doctor · August 13, 2022, 08:50:22 AM

It's good to see the designs and appreciate that nothing comes as a huge shock.

I note that some of the smaller vessels have 120mm deck mounts and wonder if they should have hoists to go with.

Kaiser Kirk · August 13, 2022, 09:08:04 AM

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on August 13, 2022, 08:50:22 AM
It's good to see the designs and appreciate that nothing comes as a huge shock.

I note that some of the smaller vessels have 120mm deck mounts and wonder if they should have hoists to go with.

I figured there should be something to look at, even if not 'Final'.
The tonnage and main batteries are fairly set though :) The Armor and speed would be close.
I will try to assemble and post the various Iberian ones later.

120mm, you're correct that 'best practices' would be a hoist.
However early iterations of ~120-127mm guns tended to be mounts - even the USN 5"/38 was originally just a mount.

For the Idun, it's way easier to handle than the 155mm,
For the Jotun/Kadir they could have moved to Hoists.
One advantaged of the Idun-base hull is that you can drop it to 31kts and still be well over the 50%, freeing up tonnage
for things like hoists :)
A non-placeholder version may see that.