Aztec Ships and Refits, 1914-1915

[The Rock Doctor]

Increasing the trim of the 1,000 t ship might help the seakeeping a bit.

The length-to-beam ratio on the smaller design is really high and might be problematic from a modding perspective.

I'd probably go with the 1,000 t design - more eggs in one basket, but it's a much better basket.

[TacCovert4]

Thanks for the hint on the 1000t design.  It did help a bit.

The only issue with the 1000t design is that it can't be started before 1915.  Curse of being a minor power that's way behind the power curve on everything.  The 500t ship can be started immediately.  No it's not much of a minelayer, but it has a few advantages in that it can run on top of most minefields without danger due to stupidly shallow draft, and it can be built in quantity for distributed lethality.

[The Rock Doctor]

Sure but we're only months away from 1915 anyway.  You could lay down the 500 t boat in 2/14 but at that point the war hasn't started and the need hasn't actually been identified yet.

[TacCovert4]

In this one case I'd have to disagree.  Rome was threatening war back in May, and the war pretty literally started at the first of July.  Given that, crash program stuff like this would be very likely to get laid down, especially with even the pre-war Aztec navy being rather smallish and in a 'rebuilding cycle'.

[Darman]

Sure but we're only months away from 1915 anyway.  You could lay down the 500 t boat in 2/14 but at that point the war hasn't started and the need hasn't actually been identified yet.

If he wanted to simulate a crash building program and didn't mind losing a couple months he could start the ships in Aug/Sept 1914

[TacCovert4]

Plus, GTBs were already in the cards, so a GTB based Minelayer isn't really a stretch, more of a first of August 'oh crap we lost a third of our minelaying capacity in one night because it was too slow to get away from a cruiser.....we need fast minelayers now.

[The Rock Doctor]

In this one case I'd have to disagree.  Rome was threatening war back in May, and the war pretty literally started at the first of July.  Given that, crash program stuff like this would be very likely to get laid down, especially with even the pre-war Aztec navy being rather smallish and in a 'rebuilding cycle'.

Sure, but you hadn't articulated these considerations at the time of my response. 

Whatever works for you.

[TacCovert4]

After much review of the actual needs for an MTB-tender for future use that could hold its own as part of a screening force if necessary, or see off a couple of bothersome destroyers, the following design was put forward.  Eschewing the physical storage of all of its MTBs onboard, instead this ship relies primarily on keeping two squadrons of MTBs in action at sea and is capable of physically carrying 2 at a time for engineering casualties or major required maintenance.  Notable is the tonnage put into additional survivability equipment as well as additional night fighting equipment for its size, after all it's a very small cruiser.

Loggerhead, Aztec MTB Tender laid down 1915

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,115 t standard; 3,408 t normal; 3,643 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (439.82 ft / 436.35 ft) x 43.60 ft x (11.48 / 12.10 ft)
   (134.06 m / 133.00 m) x 13.29 m  x (3.50 / 3.69 m)

Armament:
      5 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 109.02lbs / 49.45kg shells, 140 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck centre
      1 double raised mount
      2 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.08lbs / 5.03kg shells, 300 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      16 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 568 lbs / 257 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.50" / 38 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.10" / 28 mm
   Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm  Quarter deck: 0.94" / 24 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.57" / 40 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 25,515 shp / 19,034 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 5,200nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 528 tons

Complement:
   222 - 289

Cost:
   £0.393 million / $1.574 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 109 tons, 3.2 %
      - Guns: 109 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 613 tons, 18.0 %
      - Belts: 341 tons, 10.0 %
      - Armament: 21 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 244 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 966 tons, 28.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,074 tons, 31.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 408 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 238 tons, 7.0 %
      - Hull below water: 88 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 90 tons
      - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,793 lbs / 1,720 Kg = 36.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.546 / 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.01 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.83 ft / 4.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,228 Square feet or 1,229 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 284 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 0.95
      - Overall: 0.90
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

80t - 2 x MTB-20t and Davits (Stored Onboard)
9t - 1908 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t- Remote Sensing Devices
48t - MTB-20t General Maintenance Tonnage (24 Boats Total as Tender)
30t - Fuel for MTB-Bs (Stored Low, 24 Boats as Combat Tender)
10t - Additional Damage Control and Firefighting Equipment
3t - Additional Handling Equipment, work lights, night work lights, etc. for MTBs.
2t - Additional Scopes and Searchlights for Night Fighting
5t - Pumps, hoses, and purging/storage for refueling MTBs at sea

[TacCovert4]

The current war has shown that the concept of a relatively large but capable fleet support ship is important.  It's also shown some of the issues with such vessels.  The current trend away from coal firing, which the war has accelerated, will help in minimizing fuel issues.

LSS-1, Aztez Landing Ship Support laid down 1916

Displacement:
   7,918 t light; 8,132 t standard; 9,391 t normal; 10,399 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (412.87 ft / 410.11 ft) x 55.77 ft x (19.16 / 21.00 ft)
   (125.84 m / 125.00 m) x 17.00 m  x (5.84 / 6.40 m)

Armament:
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 140 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.09lbs / 5.03kg shells, 150 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 329 lbs / 149 kg

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 3 shafts, 34,410 shp / 25,670 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,267 tons

Complement:
   476 - 620

Cost:
   £0.776 million / $3.105 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 65 tons, 0.7 %
      - Guns: 65 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1,282 tons, 13.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,049 tons, 21.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,473 tons, 15.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4,522 tons, 48.2 %
      - Hull below water: 3,512 tons
      - Hull above water: 650 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 300 tons
      - Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,546 lbs / 5,237 Kg = 172.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.50
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 11.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.750 / 0.758
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m,  14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.04 ft / 4.89 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,159 Square feet or 1,780 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 364 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Above Deck

9t- 1908 FC
25t - LR Radio
25t - Detection Devices
1t - Additional Work Lights

On Deck

200t  - Cranes and Logistical equipment (hoses, pumps, MHE, etc)
100t - Damage Control Equipment (Fire Fighting equipment, additional pumps, hoses (for DC of other vessels at sea), tools and other equipment for assisting other ships in repairs

Above Water

100t - Parts and spares
400t - General Stores
50t - Refrigeration and desalination plants
100t - Hospital Spaces (expands the existing medical facilities by 100t)

Below Water

700t - Munitions Storage Magazines
312t  - Electric Drives
150t - Additional Subdividing Bulkheads around vital spaces
100t - 25mm splinter plating around and above magazine spaces
50t - Additional DC Pumps
2200t - Fuel