Chinese Ship Designs

Desertfox · April 20, 2020, 03:43:34 PM

QuoteBut unless some player made a German-style PD about 1893,
then someone would have to design it from scratch, post it for review, and then it could be used.
which is work.

Well I went and springsharped a Brandenburg-style PD only to realize that the Chinese ships at the Battle of Yalu River where a totally different (and older) design... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingyuan-class_ironclad

Crouching Tiger, China Pre-Dreadnought laid down 1890

Displacement:
   8,455 t light; 8,996 t standard; 9,774 t normal; 10,396 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (380.00 ft / 380.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.29 ft)
   (115.82 m / 115.82 m) x 19.51 m x (7.92 / 8.32 m)

Armament:
4 - 10.63" / 270 mm 40.0 cal guns - 575.59lbs / 261.08kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1890 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 10.63" / 270 mm 35.0 cal guns - 563.12lbs / 255.43kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1890 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
6 - 4.33" / 110 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.96lbs / 18.58kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1890 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 15.76lbs / 7.15kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1890 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,800 lbs / 1,724 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   228.00 ft / 69.49 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Ends:   11.0" / 279 mm   152.00 ft / 46.33 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   228.00 ft / 69.49 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   11.0" / 279 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   3rd:   1.50" / 38 mm     -           -
   4th:   1.50" / 38 mm     -           -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.40" / 61 mm
   Forecastle: 1.20" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1.20" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 16.00" / 406 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,807 ihp / 5,824 Kw = 16.50 kts
   Range 4,800nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,400 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   490 - 638

Cost:
   £0.799 million / $3.197 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 595 tons, 6.1 %
     - Guns: 595 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 3,165 tons, 32.4 %
     - Belts: 1,659 tons, 17.0 %
     - Armament: 682 tons, 7.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 666 tons, 6.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 158 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 1,516 tons, 15.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,174 tons, 32.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,319 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 0.1 %
     - On freeboard deck: 100 tons
     - Above deck: 5 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,579 lbs / 4,799 Kg = 17.6 x 10.6 " / 270 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 91 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.541 / 0.548
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Forward deck:   30.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Aft deck:   30.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Quarter deck:   20.00 %, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m, 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     - Average freeboard:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,830 Square feet or 1,564 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 661 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.23
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

-100t Pro-torpedo nets

Kaiser Kirk · April 20, 2020, 04:55:40 PM

Quote from: Desertfox on April 20, 2020, 03:43:34 PM
-100t Pro-torpedo nets

Actually they came into use earlier, "Experiments were conducted in 1877, with HMS Thunderer becoming the first operational ship to be fitted with the nets."

Right now I'm not trying to create SS's for the entire Chinese fleet.
I'm trying to identify where appropriate ships are missing and supply those.

The 1909 BB/BC types, the 1905 BB type, etc. Where the capital ship limitations preclude the more modern ships the players were fielding.

For 1893 we have 3 BB candidates, 2 AC candidates, a PC, an SC. It's not that horrid.
For 1897 we have 3 BBs, 1 AC, 3 PCs, 2 DD, 2 TB
For 1901 fewer options. 2 BBs, 0 AC, 1 SC... that's where looking at 1899-1900 ships would really pay off.
For 1905, 1 BC, 3 AC, 1 Sc, 1 DD. A little limited, again 1903-1904 may help.

Just exploring how to do this.

It looks like I may need "stock" hulls for Minesweepers, Minelayers, etc. I'm thinking of burgling the Parthian designs, and just adjusting the engines for the appropriate year.

Desertfox · April 20, 2020, 05:14:52 PM

Do you need an actual SS3 report to look at? Maybe just pull stats from OTL ships (Wikipedia)?

-Response in the China and NPC thread.

Kaiser Kirk · April 25, 2020, 01:25:50 PM

Quick adaption of Parthian Pirate, which was a modified RN "R" class. It was already long ranged, Needed to go to 90% coal burning.

Long Range is intended to at last allow the Destroyers to operate expeditions across the China sea and return.

The 90mm are arranged with a single gun forward, to minimize weight on the bow. Amidships, Q mount is raised, allowing clear arcs. Aft, on the lowered fantail is Y mount,

The amidships break is extended to 52% of the hull to indicate the amidship 90mm is on the raised section. Four twin 18" torpedo tubes are amid ships, 2 foreward of that gun and 2 aft. The TDC is built into the platform raising the 90mm gun.

Iron Pyrite, Chinese Destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   750 t light; 777 t standard; 922 t normal; 1,037 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (289.00 ft / 278.87 ft) x 27.33 ft x (10.66 / 11.58 ft)
   (88.09 m / 85.00 m) x 8.33 m x (3.25 / 3.53 m)

Armament:
3 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.43lbs / 10.18kg shells, 230 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1909 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
Weight of broadside 67 lbs / 31 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 16,497 shp / 12,307 Kw = 28.75 kts Trial Speed: 30.1
   Range 4,960nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 260 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   83 - 108

Cost:
   £0.099 million / $0.398 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 12 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
     - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 499 tons, 54.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 218 tons, 23.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 171 tons, 18.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 19 tons, 2.1 %
     - On freeboard deck: 17 tons
     - Above deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     257 lbs / 117 Kg = 11.5 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.62
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 9.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.397 / 0.411
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 29.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   20.00 %, 18.27 ft / 5.57 m, 16.47 ft / 5.02 m
     - Forward deck:   32.00 %, 16.47 ft / 5.02 m, 14.67 ft / 4.47 m
     - Aft deck:   33.00 %, 6.46 ft / 1.97 m, 6.46 ft / 1.97 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 6.46 ft / 1.97 m, 6.46 ft / 1.97 m
     - Average freeboard:      11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,427 Square feet or 411 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 120 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Kaiser Kirk · April 25, 2020, 01:27:00 PM

Fox,
Since you were the only player to post a design when I needed some, I am going to award you the "Runner up" purse of +$1 to your HY2 1912 or HY1 1913 turn.

Kaiser Kirk · April 25, 2020, 03:48:33 PM

Also need a 90/10 coal burning version of the Parthian Podragos cruisers.

Podagros, China Protected Cruiser Series III laid down 1906

Displacement:
   5,996 t light; 6,264 t standard; 7,175 t normal; 7,904 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (492.13 ft / 475.72 ft) x 49.21 ft x (21.33 / 22.96 ft)
   (150.00 m / 145.00 m) x 15.00 m x (6.50 / 7.00 m)

Armament:
10 - 6.50" / 165 mm 45.0 cal guns - 138.89lbs / 63.00kg shells, 140 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1899 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
8 - 2.36" / 60.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 6.98lbs / 3.17kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,445 lbs / 655 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.56" / 65 mm   428.15 ft / 130.50 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 138 % of normal length

- Hull Bulges:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm        -

- Protected deck - single deck: 1.18" / 30 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 34,115 shp / 25,450 Kw = 26.25 kts
   Range 7,600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,641 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   389 - 506

Cost:
   £0.681 million / $2.725 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 378 tons, 5.3 %
   Armour: 965 tons, 13.5 %
     - Belts: 513 tons, 7.1 %
     - Armament: 80 tons, 1.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 344 tons, 4.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,413 tons, 33.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,942 tons, 27.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,179 tons, 16.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 299 tons, 4.2 %
     - Hull void weights: 22 tons
     - Hull above water: 160 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 54 tons
     - Above deck: 63 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,372 lbs / 1,983 Kg = 31.9 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.43

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.503 / 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   5.00 %, 20.54 ft / 6.26 m, 20.54 ft / 6.26 m
     - Forward deck:   56.00 %, 20.54 ft / 6.26 m, 20.54 ft / 6.26 m
     - Aft deck:   34.00 %, 12.34 ft / 3.76 m, 12.34 ft / 3.76 m
     - Quarter deck:   5.00 %, 12.34 ft / 3.76 m, 12.34 ft / 3.76 m
     - Average freeboard:      17.34 ft / 5.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,641 Square feet or 1,453 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 380 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.84
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Intended as a Protected Cruiser for the fleet
The vessel is fitted with a protective deck, 90mm on the slopes and 28mm on the flat

38t - 1905 Fire Control
25t - Long Range Radio
30t - 0.5% increased ventilation
24t - Torpedoes 4 xT2 (8)
160t - minedeck on 2nd deck aft, 2 mine rails w/80 mines ea. drop through ports in stern
22t - construction reserve remaining

+5.26 Forecastle deck
+3.76 Weather Deck
+1.26 2nd deck, top of main belt, protective deck
-1.24 Bottom of main belt, 1st deck
-5.74 Engineering Deck

1907 Refit : 38t
+ 1905 fire control
- 38t construction reserve

eltf177 · April 25, 2020, 05:42:04 PM

No 60mm guns listed for Iron Pyrite...

Kaiser Kirk · April 25, 2020, 06:38:51 PM

Quote from: eltf177 on April 25, 2020, 05:42:04 PM
No 60mm guns listed for Iron Pyrite...

that's because they were on the original Parthian design and not retained.
Since these are rushed adaptations, the text does not entirely match.

But good catch :)
...and fixed :)

Kaiser Kirk · May 02, 2020, 07:53:42 PM

So I screwed up.
I posted the Chinese fleet had 3 Golden Dragon 1905 class.
Except the Golden Dragon posted was 1909....
and the Light tonnage used was from a 1905 design called Sea Dragon that wasn't posted.
So this is what the 1905 ship is.
ARGH.

Hai Lung (Sea Dragon), China Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   16,198 t light; 17,131 t standard; 18,010 t normal; 18,712 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (465.88 ft / 459.32 ft) x 85.30 ft x (26.90 / 27.76 ft)
   (142.00 m / 140.00 m) x 26.00 m x (8.20 / 8.46 m)

Armament:
12 - 10.63" / 270 mm 45.0 cal guns - 606.27lbs / 275.00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
12 - 4.33" / 110 mm 50.0 cal guns - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
     6 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
16 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 11.02lbs / 5.00kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,981 lbs / 3,620 kg

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.45" / 240 mm   298.56 ft / 91.00 m   13.29 ft / 4.05 m
   Ends:   3.54" / 90 mm   160.73 ft / 48.99 m   13.29 ft / 4.05 m
   Upper:   4.72" / 120 mm   298.56 ft / 91.00 m   9.78 ft / 2.98 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Hull Bulges:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.8" / 275 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   4.72" / 120 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -

- Protected deck - multiple decks: 2.95" / 75 mm For and Aft decks
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 23,158 ihp / 17,276 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 4,815nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,581 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   776 - 1,010

Cost:
   £1.749 million / $6.995 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,472 tons, 8.2 %
   Armour: 5,995 tons, 33.3 %
     - Belts: 2,585 tons, 14.4 %
     - Armament: 1,827 tons, 10.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,443 tons, 8.0 %
     - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,323 tons, 18.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,965 tons, 27.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,812 tons, 10.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 442 tons, 2.5 %
     - Hull below water: 140 tons
     - Hull void weights: 80 tons
     - Hull above water: 50 tons
     - Above deck: 172 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,304 lbs / 7,849 Kg = 28.8 x 10.6 " / 270 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.598 / 0.602
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 21.49 ft / 6.55 m, 21.49 ft / 6.55 m
     - Forward deck:   10.00 %, 21.49 ft / 6.55 m, 21.49 ft / 6.55 m
     - Aft deck:   55.00 %, 13.48 ft / 4.11 m, 13.48 ft / 4.11 m
     - Quarter deck:   20.00 %, 13.48 ft / 4.11 m, 13.48 ft / 4.11 m
     - Average freeboard:      15.49 ft / 4.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,603 Square feet or 2,657 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 700 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Chinese 1905 BB

25mm upper deck
Upperbelt is 2 decks high for 22% of length, average height 2.98m
Main belt is from +0.75 above deck crown, to -1.6 below WL, total 4.05.
50mm protective deck crowns 1.67m, descends 0.77m BWL.

Miscellaneous Weight :
140 : Torpedo Nets
50t : Torpedo flat on stern, above armor deck. 2TT each side, 12 Torpedoes.
147t Fire Control.
25t LR radio
80t Construction reserve.

2.44 decks, 3.44m Engineering, 1m dbl bottom

Decks :
6.58.4 : 25mm Armor, Weather deck
4.14 : Gun Deck, Casements
2.45 : Top of Main belt.
1.7 : 40mm Crown of protective deck
-0.74 : 2nd Deck, Lower Edge of protective deck
-1.6 : Bottom of Main belt
-3.18 : 1st Deck
-6.62 : Engineering Deck.

Desertfox · May 02, 2020, 09:12:46 PM

If I can get into secondary range, these Chinese BBs might be in trouble. Those exposed torpedo tubes are a big fire hazard.

Kaiser Kirk · May 02, 2020, 10:01:22 PM

Yes they are. It's a design 'flaw' meant to shoot over the torpedo nets.
On the plus side, they are outside the citadel, under the quarterdeck and over the stern armor and propshafts.

Guinness · June 10, 2020, 06:46:10 PM

For 1911, the Chinese are departing a bit from Parthian designs with a fully indigenously designed DD. This ship incorporates a short forecastle mounting the forward gun, followed by a well deck before the more rearward bridge. The well deck is the home of the forward 2 of 4 50cm torpedoes.

Quote
Iron Pyrite, China Destroyer laid down 1911

Displacement:
   750 t light; 777 t standard; 926 t normal; 1,046 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (283.53 ft / 278.87 ft) x 27.33 ft x (10.66 / 11.61 ft)
   (86.42 m / 85.00 m) x 8.33 m x (3.25 / 3.54 m)

Armament:
3 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.43lbs / 10.18kg shells, 230 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
2 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 67 lbs / 31 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 17,500 shp / 13,055 Kw = 29.12 kts
   Range 3,780nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 269 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   83 - 109

Cost:
   £0.098 million / $0.394 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 12 tons, 1.3 %
     - Guns: 12 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
     - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 492 tons, 53.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 208 tons, 22.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 177 tons, 19.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 3.8 %
     - Hull below water: 10 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 23 tons
     - Above deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     252 lbs / 114 Kg = 11.3 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.62
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 9.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.399 / 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Forward deck:   12.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Aft deck:   58.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
     - Average freeboard:      11.09 ft / 3.38 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,433 Square feet or 412 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 57 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 118 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.49
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

Trial Speed 30.5

Torpedoes:
2 in fore well deck behind forecastle, mounted in indivdual trainable mounts on either side
1 amidships in single mount
1 aft in single mount
2 reloads

Misc weights:
18 tons: torpedoes
5 tons on deck, 2 tons above deck, 10 tons below deck: constructional reserve

Guinness · June 10, 2020, 06:53:21 PM

I'm a bonehead and this should be a 1912 design :) That'll probably give me another ton to play with.

Edit: another 500 SHP but a little less misc weight:

QuoteIron Pyrite, China Destroyer laid down 1912

Displacement:
   750 t light; 777 t standard; 926 t normal; 1,046 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (283.53 ft / 278.87 ft) x 27.33 ft x (10.66 / 11.61 ft)
   (86.42 m / 85.00 m) x 8.33 m x (3.25 / 3.54 m)

Armament:
3 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.43lbs / 10.18kg shells, 230 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
2 - 0.39" / 10.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 3,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 67 lbs / 31 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.31" / 8 mm     -           -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 18,000 shp / 13,428 Kw = 29.32 kts
   Range 3,950nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 269 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   83 - 109

Cost:
   £0.099 million / $0.395 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 12 tons, 1.3 %
     - Guns: 12 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
     - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 493 tons, 53.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 209 tons, 22.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 176 tons, 19.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 33 tons, 3.6 %
     - Hull below water: 8 tons
     - On freeboard deck: 23 tons
     - Above deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     232 lbs / 105 Kg = 10.4 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.399 / 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
     - Forecastle:   15.00 %, 17.39 ft / 5.30 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Forward deck:   12.00 %, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m, 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Aft deck:   58.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
     - Quarter deck:   15.00 %, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m, 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
     - Average freeboard:      11.09 ft / 3.38 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,433 Square feet or 412 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 57 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 119 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Trial Speed: 30.5

Torpedoes:
2 in fore well deck behind forecastle, mounted in indivdual trainable mounts on either side
1 amidships in single mount
1 aft in single mount
2 reloads

Misc weights:
18 tons: torpedoes
5 tons on deck, 2 tons above deck, 8 tons below deck: constructional reserve

Desertfox · June 10, 2020, 06:57:10 PM

So similar to the OTL Japanese destroyers? I was planning to do the same myself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_destroyers_of_World_War_II#/media/File:Japanese_destroyer_No16_Fuyo.jpg

Guinness · June 10, 2020, 07:00:16 PM

Yeah sort of. My inspiration is the same as that of the Japanese: German Große Torpedoboote.

The idea in my mind is: They can either fire (roughly) straight ahead with a 2 fish shot, or broadside with a 3 fish shot. If the latter, they can reload and shoot another 3 from the other side. A future iteration might dispense with the ahead fire and the reserve fish.