Parthian Empire

[Kaiser Kirk]

I personally like the 130mm version better. The hits will "count" more with 7kg difference in shell weight. I presume that the L50s will also have a flatter shell arc than the L43s and that would likely be more favorable to shooting at smaller, maneuvering targets.

A thing to note on that front is that the L43s have a good MV as well, as lighter guns they should be easier to keep on target and rotate faster,
and these are destroyers- no hoists. So crew is lugging either 55 or 70lb shells around.  I know when carrying packloads, 50 is much better than 65, and 65 is my preferred limit.

Jefgte's point is good - I can yank the Q mount for AA.

As for yanking fish... kinda figuring the fan tail tubes will get removed for depth charges not far down the road.

So I'm starting to lean towards the 120L43 as the Destroyer Gun.

[Kaiser Kirk]

As another matter,
the Parthians have 12 armored sailing frigates from 1894.
These are small and would be challenged by modern protected cruisers,
but also can serve as either a coastal gunboat, or a long range raider.
Which right now, the Parthians still see a need for.
...and at $0.86 , 0.13BP  a vessel seems affordable

Class Name : FFA Artesmia 1915 Refurbishment
Goal :  To extend service life to 1925.  Simple refurbishment, replace 180mm with 165mm, new Fire Control, new LR radio, new masts

Date : 1894
Original Cost : 2998
Replace 180BL with 165QF, splinter armor  : 93t
Total Mag : 45t : 120 rounds
1904 LR Radio : 25t
1914 Fire Control : 12t

COST: $0.86, 0.13BP

Artemisia, Parthian Armored Frigate refurb 1915 laid down 1894

Displacement:
   3,005 t light; 3,132 t standard; 3,337 t normal; 3,501 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (331.82 ft / 328.08 ft) x 42.65 ft x (13.12 / 13.67 ft)
   (101.14 m / 100.00 m) x 13.00 m  x (4.00 / 4.17 m)

Armament:
      4 - 6.50" / 165 mm 43.0 cal guns - 143.30lbs / 65.00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 210 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 74.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 2,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1886 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 750 lbs / 340 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.38" / 35 mm   236.22 ft / 72.00 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   1.38" / 35 mm     91.83 ft / 27.99 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.54" / 90 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,651 ihp / 3,470 Kw = 16.85 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 369 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   219 - 285

Cost:
   £0.260 million / $1.040 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 109 tons, 3.3 %
      - Guns: 109 tons, 3.3 %
   Armour: 505 tons, 15.1 %
      - Belts: 220 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armament: 35 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 233 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 869 tons, 26.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 960 tons, 28.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 332 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 562 tons, 16.8 %
      - Hull below water: 230 tons
      - Hull above water: 140 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 55 tons
      - Above deck: 137 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,667 lbs / 1,663 Kg = 26.8 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 11.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.97

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.636 / 0.641
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18.00 %,  17.59 ft / 5.36 m,  15.12 ft / 4.61 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  15.12 ft / 4.61 m,  12.66 ft / 3.86 m
      - Aft deck:   52.00 %,  12.66 ft / 3.86 m,  12.66 ft / 3.86 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  12.66 ft / 3.86 m,  14.30 ft / 4.36 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.61 ft / 4.15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,582 Square feet or 983 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 315 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.56
      - Overall: 1.01
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Named after Grand Admiral Artemisia, a fameous admiral from 480BCE. She was known for leading her navy against the Greek City States.

With a full rig, this vessel could do 12. knots at a cost 45 above deck, 195 below deck

This vessel is full rigged
The Persians  believe the full rigging, the modest bunker (195t) and small size / draft means the vessel can have nearly unlimited range, calling on any anchorage world wide. All while not belching a cloud of coal smoke on the horizon. This series of raiders are full rigged sailing vessels. An anachronism in many ways, the purpose is to allow raiders to operate around the world, threatening enemy mercantile traffic everywhere. The opposition is not expected to field substantive forces, but the combination of guns does make this vessel capable of combatting most light cruisers of the time successfully.


The four heavy 180mm main guns mounted in casements allow both fore/aft fire, and 2 gun broadside fire. This in combo with the 4-gun batteries of 90mm guns gives it the ability to fight off the typical light cruisers of the world.

Armor :
The citadel is expanded fore/aft 12m (adjusted bow/stern %) to ensure critical systems fit below.

A protective deck, crowning at +1.42m and descending to -1.06m is fitted.
The deck has a 30mm crown, and 65mm slopes the entire length of the ship.
Decks :
+3.86
+1.42
-1.02
-3.82

Miscellaneous Weight :
200 below : Masts
30 below : 2 bow torpedo tubes, 20 16" torpedoes, sited below protective deck
(225)
50 in hull : quarters for Marine Section : 25 men
60 in hull : Extra supplies
30 in hull : Brig for prisoners
(140)
40 on deck : 2 x 10t motor launch
15 on deck : Extra ventilation
(55)
25 Above deck : Long Range radio, refitted 1904.
45 Above deck : Sails
(60)
Void : 10t excess

1904 refit : 57t
+25 Long range radio
-8 x 90L40 BL
+32t  +8 x 90L45 QF

1907 refit :12t
+1905 fire control
-10t construction resv

1915 Refurbishment
- Change 180L40 to 165L43
Replace LR Radio and Fire Control

[Kaiser Kirk]

The events of the 2nd Sino-Japanese war, and the (NPC) Chinese reports reinforced the knowledge of a weakness in the Parthian fleet, among the protected cruisers.
That led to the Maelstrom Class...which I don't seem to have posted. I will get that fixed since 4 are build and 4 under construction...

1915 leads to the question of continuing the Maelstrom with slight changes and the newer 165L43 gun, to retain high cruiser-killing ability
Or to take advantage of the new two gun M&H for the 130L50 gun....to turn it into a smaller craft mincer.
Each has 2 sets of FC, meant to allow split battery firing.

So I'll do this in two quote blocks


130mm version

SC-14 "H" Ranger, Parthian Cruiser laid down 1915

Displacement:
   5,000 t light; 5,246 t standard; 6,111 t normal; 6,803 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (424.87 ft / 419.95 ft) x 42.65 ft x (20.77 / 22.66 ft)
   (129.50 m / 128.00 m) x 13.00 m  x (6.33 / 6.91 m)

Armament:
      8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 190 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 74.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 23.55lbs / 10.68kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 942 lbs / 427 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   319.16 ft / 97.28 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 50,382 shp / 37,585 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,557 tons

Complement:
   345 - 449

Cost:
   £0.760 million / $3.041 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 245 tons, 4.0 %
      - Guns: 245 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 982 tons, 16.1 %
      - Belts: 498 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armament: 83 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 366 tons, 6.0 %
      - Conning Towers: 35 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,908 tons, 31.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,633 tons, 26.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,111 tons, 18.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 232 tons, 3.8 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons
      - Hull void weights: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 97 tons
      - Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,701 lbs / 2,132 Kg = 70.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.575 / 0.587
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.85 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   14.00 %,  20.83 ft / 6.35 m,  19.19 ft / 5.85 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  19.19 ft / 5.85 m,  17.55 ft / 5.35 m
      - Aft deck:   31.00 %,  17.55 ft / 5.35 m,  17.55 ft / 5.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  17.55 ft / 5.35 m,  19.19 ft / 5.85 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.33 ft / 5.59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,797 Square feet or 1,189 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 337 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.80
      - Longitudinal: 2.59
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


The "H" Type aims for more anti-destroyer ability.
Follows on the "G" type which sported 165mm guns.
while moving the armor deck down to protective deck level.
This in turn means there is a 40mm slope behind the main belt.

The forward doublestacked casements are moved downwards, increasing stability.
The fact the lower guns are unusable in a heavy seaway is deemed acceptable, as combat in those situations is expected to be rare,
and the vessel is unlikely to be called on to stop a torpedo attack in heavy seas.

1915 130L50 is the new gun.
1886 Gardner hand cranked 15mm MGs are the 1899 mount.
1910 90L50 is in the Mk II 1910 AA mount.

Decks :
+5.35m   4th deck
+2.88m   3rd deck
                 +1.5m   Top main belt, .
+0.44m  2nd deck,   40mm Protective armor deck Crown.
               -1.5m  Bottom Main belt
-2m       1st Deck, bottom of protective deck slope
-5.44m  Engineering Deck, Stores
-5.82m  Double bottom

Range :


1506t  :  21days steaming +10%
45t : Excess capacity
Max at 29knts : 1,025nm
Max at 3/4 power : 1300nm @ 27knots
Can make 2400nm at 22knots

Misc Wt :
50 - void Construction Reserve

2x 25t AD- 2x  fire control
25 AD - Long range radio

25 OD - Hulsmeyer
25 OD - War Tuba
25 OD - Searchlight tower amidships
12  - 2t2 Torpedoes (4x3t)
10 - 'Windcatcher' evaporative cooling

10 BD- extra pumps

The 165mm version

SC-14 "H" Ranger, Parthian Cruiser laid down 1915

Displacement:
   5,000 t light; 5,249 t standard; 5,962 t normal; 6,532 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (424.87 ft / 419.95 ft) x 41.99 ft x (20.51 / 22.09 ft)
   (129.50 m / 128.00 m) x 12.80 m  x (6.25 / 6.73 m)

Armament:
      4 - 6.50" / 165 mm 43.0 cal guns - 143.30lbs / 65.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 6.50" / 165 mm 43.0 cal guns - 143.30lbs / 65.00kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 74.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 5,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 23.55lbs / 10.68kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,241 lbs / 563 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.33" / 110 mm   335.96 ft / 102.40 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.31" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0.79" / 20 mm  Quarter deck: 1.38" / 35 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 4.33" / 110 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 49,527 shp / 36,947 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 9,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,283 tons

Complement:
   338 - 440

Cost:
   £0.750 million / $2.999 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 242 tons, 4.1 %
      - Guns: 242 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 1,048 tons, 17.6 %
      - Belts: 571 tons, 9.6 %
      - Armament: 85 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 361 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 31 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,876 tons, 31.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,621 tons, 27.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 962 tons, 16.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 213 tons, 3.6 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons
      - Hull void weights: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 103 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,501 lbs / 2,042 Kg = 32.8 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.84
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.577 / 0.587
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   12.00 %,  20.73 ft / 6.32 m,  19.09 ft / 5.82 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  19.09 ft / 5.82 m,  17.45 ft / 5.32 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  17.45 ft / 5.32 m,  17.45 ft / 5.32 m
      - Quarter deck:   8.00 %,  17.45 ft / 5.32 m,  19.09 ft / 5.82 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.16 ft / 5.54 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,624 Square feet or 1,173 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 338 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.80
      - Longitudinal: 2.62
      - Overall: 0.90
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The "H" is a 1915 follow on to the G.
Somewhat more efficient machinery, and the new 165L43 gun.
The quarterdeck was made resistant to 210mm splinters,
and the belt & conning tower thickened to 110mm.
With the protective deck behind this is expected to be adequate.


The forward doublestacked casements are moved downwards, increasing stability.
The fact the lower guns are unusable in a heavy seaway is deemed acceptable, as combat in those situations is expected to be rare,
and the vessel is unlikely to be called on to stop a torpedo attack in heavy seas.

1914 165L43  1914 mounts
1886 Gardner hand cranked 15mm MGs are the 1899 mount.
1910 90L50 is in the Mk II 1910 AA mount.

Decks :
+5.32m   4th deck
+2.88m   3rd deck
                 +1.5m   Top main belt, .
+0.44m  2nd deck,   40mm Protective armor deck Crown.
               -1.5m  Bottom Main belt
-2m       1st Deck, bottom of protective deck slope
-5.44m  Engineering Deck, Stores
-5.82m  Double bottom

Range :

1291t max oil
989 :  21days steaming +10%
302 : 5.6hrs at 29knts


Misc Wt :
70 - void Construction Reserve

25 AD- 1912 fire control
25 AD - Long range radio

25 OD - Hulsmeyer
25 OD - War Tuba
25 OD - Searchlight tower amidships
18 - 2t2 Torpedoes (4x3t)
10 - 'Windcatcher' evaporative cooling

10 BD- extra pumps

[Kaiser Kirk]

I *think* I have a need for a coast defense type.
Currently I have 4 ancient ones - Gatekeeper, Keymaster, Zuul and Gozer.

There's two versions - one is the 5.5m draft which can use Khasab harbor and close the Straits of Hormuz, or hide in the river Deltas of the Zambezi, or use Palembang etc.
That's what I currently have, based on the Austrian Wien and I want to replace with more a Sevrige type.

The other is a 16000 ton second class battleship with a <7.5m draft, so it can use lots of secondary ports, and would be a tussle for anything under a full dreadnaught.
I'm building 160m drydocks in the colonies, so lots of places for either to repair.

First the Sevrige type,
It's really really fat - 0.7BC, 5:1 LB.

Keymaster II, Parthian Coast Defense Cruiser laid down 1915

Displacement:
   8,741 t light; 9,352 t standard; 9,891 t normal; 10,321 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (393.70 ft / 387.14 ft) x 77.10 ft x (16.57 / 17.20 ft)
   (120.00 m / 118.00 m) x 23.50 m  x (5.05 / 5.24 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.81" / 300 mm 41.0 cal guns - 870.83lbs / 395.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      8 - 0.30" / 7.5 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 20,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,991 lbs / 2,264 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.45" / 240 mm   271.00 ft / 82.60 m   10.53 ft / 3.21 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   116.11 ft / 35.39 m   10.53 ft / 3.21 m
   Upper:   1.97" / 50 mm   238.19 ft / 72.60 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.50" / 38 mm   271.00 ft / 82.60 m   16.11 ft / 4.91 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 50.85 ft / 15.50 m

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      9.45" / 240 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.18" / 30 mm
   4th:   0.51" / 13 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.56" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.56" / 65 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 12,174 shp / 9,082 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 4,400nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 969 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   495 - 644

Cost:
   £1.116 million / $4.464 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 900 tons, 9.1 %
      - Guns: 900 tons, 9.1 %
   Armour: 3,627 tons, 36.7 %
      - Belts: 1,486 tons, 15.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 242 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 655 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,087 tons, 11.0 %
      - Conning Towers: 156 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 471 tons, 4.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,395 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,150 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 348 tons, 3.5 %
      - Hull below water: 118 tons
      - Hull void weights: 75 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 40 tons
      - Above deck: 115 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,231 lbs / 9,177 Kg = 24.6 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
   Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 13.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.700 / 0.704
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.22 ft / 5.25 m,  15.26 ft / 4.65 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  15.26 ft / 4.65 m,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m,  13.62 ft / 4.15 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.85 ft / 4.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,924 Square feet or 2,223 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 629 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc wt :
LR Radio
Fire Control
Enhanced Ventilation
Torpedo nets.

The second is the 16000 ton second class battleship.
I've previewed a couple versions before, but in 1915-1916 I may actually lay one or two down.
Gun location reflects a very long forecastle.

GateKeeper II, Parthian Coast Defense Ship laid down 1915

Displacement:
   16,119 t light; 17,289 t standard; 18,245 t normal; 19,009 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (472.44 ft / 459.32 ft) x 91.86 ft x (23.72 / 24.56 ft)
   (144.00 m / 140.00 m) x 28.00 m  x (7.23 / 7.49 m)

Armament:
      6 - 14.37" / 365 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,488.12lbs / 675.00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1915 Model
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward deck centre
     1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      10 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      10 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 74.0 cal guns - 0.12lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 10,579 lbs / 4,798 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   275.59 ft / 84.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   183.69 ft / 55.99 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Upper:   3.54" / 90 mm   252.62 ft / 77.00 m   11.75 ft / 3.58 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.50" / 38 mm   275.59 ft / 84.00 m   22.70 ft / 6.92 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72.18 ft / 22.00 m

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   6.89" / 175 mm      12.6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   5th:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.76" / 70 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 11.81" / 300 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 24,206 shp / 18,057 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 5,700nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,720 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   784 - 1,020

Cost:
   £2.422 million / $9.689 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,261 tons, 12.4 %
      - Guns: 2,261 tons, 12.4 %
   Armour: 6,543 tons, 35.9 %
      - Belts: 2,581 tons, 14.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 346 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 1,279 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,101 tons, 11.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 235 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 936 tons, 5.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,900 tons, 32.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,126 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 479 tons, 2.6 %
      - Hull below water: 140 tons
      - Hull void weights: 50 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 38 tons
      - Above deck: 251 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27,669 lbs / 12,551 Kg = 18.6 x 14.4 " / 365 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.638 / 0.642
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Forward deck:   45.00 %,  18.86 ft / 5.75 m,  18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Aft deck:   15.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.72 ft / 4.79 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,969 Square feet or 2,970 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 834 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Minimum Parameters :
USS South Carolina used for length (AB XY) : 137m
USS Nevada used for beam with TDS and triple 14" : 26m

Fuel :
75% Oil
25% Oil sprayed coal (22.5% coal, 2.5%oil)

Misc weight:
50t - construction reserve
226t - Fire Control
25t - LR radio
38t - Cooling
160t - 2x 40 MTB or Marine Launches
120t - Marine Platoon
140- torpedo nets



Decks
+5.5 : Weather deck 30mm
+3.0 : Gun deck
+1.5 : Top Armor Belt
+0.5 : Crown Main Deck, Armor deck 70mm, top of TDS
-2.0  : Bottom Main belt, Bottom Protective Deck, 1st Deck
-5.5  : Engineering Deck (3.5m high)
-6.93 : Bilges, double mine bottom (1.43m deep)

[Jefgte]

Pre Dreadnought (Keymaster II)built in 1915 are very economical in $ and BP. They can serve as back-up and surplus in the battle fleet.
=> For Parthians, a minimum speed of 20kts is required.
=>With the same speed, Keymaster II & Gate keeper II could work together.

-----------------

With a speed of 27kts or more, they can be used as a scout or pocket BC still economical compared to the big BC.

[The Rock Doctor]

Secondary armament seems really heavy for their size. 

[Kaiser Kirk]

speed
I tried to get the Keymaster II to 20knots so it could cooperate with the battleline, I like that idea.
But the draft requirement and the desire to keep it short enough to fit in a 120m drydock place a size limit.
The 0.7 BC is really fat, to try to get as much tonnage in that hull that I can.
Even then, the 240mm belt and only a single 65mm deck is minimal armoring.

Maybe I'll try a 20knot version with 10" or 9" guns.

Secondary
I'm comfortable with the M&H guns.   twins fore/aft over the main battery, then  2 each side amidships, with the aft M&H raised.   That would allow 5 x twin130 to fire forward, 4 to fire each beam, and 3 to fire aft.

That does not seem 'too much', and is similar to the Sverige, which had the fore/aft mounts, but 3 singles along the sides instead of 2 twins.

The casements are the question.
With the current N7 where heavy torpedo attacks are common, having extra guns low on the water makes sense. Not going to be useful in a sea, but the torpedo threat drops then.
These aren't meant to be part of a large fleet, so combining torpedo nets with a TDS with lots of QF guns seems a good way to keep the ship from being a cheap and easy kill.

I really don't know about the inner workings of these ships to know how the mix of Mount & Hoist and the casements with their conveyers/hoists would work.
Caseements don't take deckspace, and work directly into the hull girder, so they don't take a huge amount of interior volume either.
From what I've read there would be some internal means of getting shells to the casement guns - conveyers or hoist combos, maybe feeding a couple guns at once.

For hull length, it's not to many casements... so the question is ..would that interfere with the space for the decktop M&H?  I really don't know.

More discussion is quite welcome

[Kaiser Kirk]

I tried downgunning the Keymaster to 255L50s,
but I really want a small shallow draft ship that can defeat an existing armored cruiser or protected cruiser, would be hard for MTBs to kill (nets+ TDS+ secondary) and can avoid (by hiding in shallow water) any real capital ship...while still posing a threat to mercantile traffic in the adjoining strait.
Basically, something that will demand more resources to combat than it takes to build. The ability to hide in river channels/island shallows is particularly attractive.

I really will have some hard decisions on which ships to finance, but that's another problem.

So this is the Keymaster II with +10m length.

Rocky raised the # secondaries issue, so I'm trying to think on that :

The ship is wider than Sverige (by a little), and twin 130mm weigh 34tons while single 152mm take 33 tons... so about the same space.
Sverige had 8 "spots" for 152mm, while these ships have 6 "spots" for twin 130mm.  So that part should be workable.


On the Casement guns :
I trim the upperbelt by 10m, so it doesn't overlap the main gun barbettes.

So it's 72m long. But you want some clearance from the main guns. So Figuring 5m before the first casement guns, that's 62m of usable length.
For ease, let's assume each casement takes 5m.   
So 2 casements at each end, and 52m between them. 
Only 2 guns to go in that space, so that divides the 52m into 3 sections or about 17m each.
The final arrangement loosk like this :  _x___x___x___x_ with 17m between guns. That seems plenty of space.

I am not sure that there is something seriously wrong with the combination, I am just not sure what it would be.
Casements fell out of use for a number of reasons, which don't apply to this vessel in this time.

Granted they are miserably low to the water, but the presumption here is the ship *mostly* stays to the shallows, and the casement guns would be worked against an incoming torpedo strike.
There the short tubby hull should help it turn quickly.

Keymaster II, Parthian Coast Defense Cruiser laid down 1915
Displacement:
   9,152 t light; 9,771 t standard; 10,311 t normal; 10,743 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (426.51 ft / 419.95 ft) x 75.46 ft x (17.39 / 18.01 ft)
   (130.00 m / 128.00 m) x 23.00 m  x (5.30 / 5.49 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.81" / 300 mm 41.0 cal guns - 870.83lbs / 395.00kg shells, 110 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1915 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1915 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 24.25lbs / 11.00kg shells, 350 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      8 - 0.30" / 7.5 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 20,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1915 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,991 lbs / 2,264 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.45" / 240 mm   271.00 ft / 82.60 m   10.50 ft / 3.20 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   116.11 ft / 35.39 m   10.50 ft / 3.20 m
     32.84 ft / 10.01 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.97" / 50 mm   238.19 ft / 72.60 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      1.50" / 38 mm   271.00 ft / 82.60 m   16.11 ft / 4.91 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 49.21 ft / 15.00 m

   - Hull void:
      0.00" / 0 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      9.45" / 240 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      1.18" / 30 mm
   4th:   0.51" / 13 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.24" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.56" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1.18" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 2.17" / 55 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.45" / 240 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 17,681 shp / 13,190 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 4,400nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 971 tons (23% coal)

Complement:
   511 - 665

Cost:
   £1.180 million / $4.721 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 900 tons, 8.7 %
      - Guns: 900 tons, 8.7 %
   Armour: 3,596 tons, 34.9 %
      - Belts: 1,481 tons, 14.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 242 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 639 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,098 tons, 10.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 137 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 684 tons, 6.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,543 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,159 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 429 tons, 4.2 %
      - Hull below water: 128 tons
      - Hull void weights: 90 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 71 tons
      - Above deck: 140 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,888 lbs / 8,567 Kg = 22.9 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.655 / 0.659
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.22 ft / 5.25 m,  15.26 ft / 4.65 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  15.26 ft / 4.65 m,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  12.80 ft / 3.90 m,  13.62 ft / 4.15 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.85 ft / 4.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,386 Square feet or 2,265 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 628 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Misc Weight
Void :
70t Construction Resv.

AD:
25t : LR Radio
90t : Fire control
25t : Hulsmeyer

OD:
46t : Enhanced Ventilation
71t : War Tubas

BW :
128t - Torpedo Nets



Decks
3.9 : Freeboard, top upper belt
1.4 : Top Main Belt, Armor Deck, Battery Deck
-1.1 : 1st Deck
         -1.8 : Bottom Main belt
-4.5  : Engineering
-4.91 : Double Bottom

[The Rock Doctor]

To clarify, it's not that I doubt you can fit the secondaries, it's that I think the quantity are overkill for a ship of that size.  Theoretically, you should have screening elements to help protect her.

Although of course the survivability of destroyers argues against that.

So anyway.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Ah,

It was a worthwhile doublecheck of the secondary presumptions anyhow.

The core idea of these types of ships is that they won't normally be with the fleet, a small squadron at best.
Mainly in rear areas / or adjacent to sealanes as a deterrence/ Control force.
IF they are built, they would free up larger fleet-ready ACs/BB/DNs that I would otherwise assign there,  while
still giving a viable presence.  I think both types would require a disproportionate amount of tonnage to hunt down and kill.

Both types have shallower drafts than most ocean going capital ships, so MTB/DD/Cruiser strikes might be needed to get rid of them.
So Nets + TDS+ lots QF guns + short LB for good turning = tough.

Anyhow, still trying to figure out how to pay for all the things I want to build.
I keep running into the painful recollection that when I calculated out the starting BP, I wasn't expecting Land/Air/Dep units to cost a BP each.
Oh and the discovery that being 'realistic' and having short starting docks is annoying now as I choose to extend them.
The other reality is I should probably just scale back my building program... 
It's not like I don't have a couple ships already...

[The Rock Doctor]

It's my understanding that giving everybody more BP would allow you to build more ships.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'm pretty sure that regardless of how many BP I have, I will want more...  I mean I have 10 serviceable dreadnaughts, yet I have designs for 3 additional classes - Scythian, Sealord, and Baphumet. in addition to the two small fry above. 

...Then there's the rebuilds of 4 PDs to keep them fairly serviceable for the cost of a cruiser, and the updates of the ACs, the building of seaplane carriers, and on and on..

[Desertfox]

Y'all should try to build a fleet with only 23 BPs... I have a grand total of 0 dreadnoughts!

[The Rock Doctor]

We're all in the 27-29 range.  Not that huge a gap.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Y'all should try to build a fleet with only 23 BPs... I have a grand total of 0 dreadnoughts!

The base BP number was predicated on the amount needed to build and replace ..I think it was a Japanese sized WWII navy, possibly somewhere between Italian and Japanese.
Pretty much everyone capped out the additional BP in prebuild. So folks will be able to afford more.

Well, you, tac and Guinness had the additional burden of a smaller start, but as Tier 1s, with the additional BP, you get up to that same base level.
As we go on and more and more "prebuild" units become obsolete/scrapped, you'll be very close in modern units.

I expected I'd have the largest army.... and for a bit I did. Then Wilno came along with slightly larger,  Snip asked to redo so he could have the biggest as that was his concept, then we added folks that looked at those armies and sprang for large ones... and I know the Horde and Rajasthan are scaled off the PC average... so I wind up thinking I need to expand my army.

Between the new drydocks, the drydock expansions, expanding the Land units to fit the bigger empire, building an airforce, there's a bit more BP demand than expected.
I can meet some of it with scrapping, but a bunch of the older units I was really hoping to refurbish - in part because I think something like a rebuilt (~$8, 3.5bp) Bucephalus would be a good convoy guard/raider, and can swat PCs....so demanding any foe commit larger/newer (costing more than 3.5 bp) units to fighting my cheap old ones.