Roll Call

[snip]

Who is still here and wants to continue in some capacity? Need to get an idea of what holes would need filling should we continue.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'm here, still plugging along.
Last 6months I've just been been burnt out by work.
Heck, it's Sunday and I'm debating if I need to go to work or if I can gamble
on actually getting help Tuesday. I leaning towards hoping I get helpers.

[Walter]

Whether I say something or say nothing, I am here ready to move on. :)

[Jefgte]

Ready to go ahead  :)

Jef

[olekit24]

I'm waiting for you

[snip]

FYI, Im going to let this sit for about a week from the original post date before contemplating what's next.

[snip]

So, hard truth time here. As it stands with the posting in this thread, I don't think this iteration of the game is going to survive. There are a grand total of 5 of us who have replied to this thread, representing mostly the smaller nations present in the sim. Currently missing are warm bodies behind the following nations

UK
Germany
Russia (Never really updated)
Japan
Netherlands
Ottomans (At last communication I recall some personal reasons for this and I hope all is well.)

I think it's unreasonable to continue with such gaping holes. I don't have the time, nor frankly motivation, to keep all these nations up to date. Im also very opposed, as both a participant and GM, to one player controlling multiple nations. In my opinion, it will lead to massive conflicts of interest where it becomes difficult to discern if a deal is being made for purely IC reason.

As such, I am hesitant to invest time and resources into continuing to push this iteration of the game forward. Without a stable cast for all the nations represented, I see the scenario currently playing out to recur with more dropping each time. Eventually, it becomes unsustainable. I am welcome to entertaining ideas, but I don't see much difference in outlook without more players.

[Walter]

If you want to give up, that is fine. I will move on with China even if the rest gives up, but for me to move on I would need a different rule on the tech stuff as I would no longer have anyone to rely on for tech rolls. I kinda feel that things would have been a lot easier if the tech research results were cost dependent instead of chance dependent.

[snip]

I think giving up is a bit harsh. I still want a game, and am still willing to be involved in some capacity. What I'm saying is that this iteration is not healthy and the only real cure is more players. Without more players, we have less activity. Without activity, it's harder to both attract and retain players. It's a self-feeding cycle I don't see a way out of (open to suggestions). The best way to solve the problem of players is to have a lively game. I feel strongly that our best chance to get that is not with what we currently have.

Again, I'm totally open to suggestions here. I've got thoughts of my own, but don't want to start cramming them on you guys unless you want to hear them.

[Walter]

More activity is no guarantee for attracting and retaining players. Stil, to create more activity to me is to move forward to H1/1906 two weeks from now and H2/1906 two weeks after that, etc. Doing that would already make things much more lively than they have been in the last half year... but I cannot do that because you want to wait with my tech rolls which on one hand I can understand but on the other hand that prevents activity and liveliness.

I've got thoughts of my own, but don't want to start cramming them on you guys unless you want to hear them.

If you have ideas, just mention them. If we don't like them, we'll shoot them down. :)

[snip]

Agree that more activity is not a guarantee, but I think it's a foundational block. Ya, the tech roll thing is a bottleneck. It's something that needs to change, but I think there are larger issues that it's a subset of rather than being a distinct issue on its own. That issue is report complexity. Can you tell me if you agree with my general thought process below?

To outline my thoughts on why the lack of players is is a problem and the sources of that problem.

Symptom: Players leave the game due to lack of activity and progression. This feeds back into itself making the issue worse as time goes on. Eventually, there is not the critical mass necessary to sustain the progress of the game.

Cause: Nations being behind on reports and/or IC events. Nations being unstaffed, requiring GMs to generate reports.

Effect: Progress between turns is time-consuming, leading to players becoming less involved as time passes.

Cause: Reports are complex and time-consuming to fill out. Reports also require GM input, which adds to time.

Effect: Progressing from turn to turn with reports varies from player to player, leaving some to wait while others catch up.

Reports are complex because they are trying to track a lot of stuff, some of which is likely never going to be used but is necessary to keep on the books. Should there be a game (and I do want there to be a game) I think the complexity of the reports needs to be looked at. While the current reports can be all auto calculated with a spreadsheet, it's still a very time-intensive task. IC events can be summarized and compressed to meet timescales, reports cannot.

Therefor, report complexity is the primary issue preventing turn progression in an adequate time for sustainable activity.

[Walter]

I generally agree although the reports are only as complex as a player makes it.

The simplest way to do a HY report is to just post the spreadsheet of that particular HY (which in my opinion is quite easy to do; you think of what you want your nation to do and fill it in and the spreadsheet does the rest when it comes to costs) and perhaps make a few notes.

My reports are a lot more complex and quite time-consuming as I work my way through the spreadsheet and bit by bit change the previous report into the new one (and hoping I am not making any errors there) with the data of the current HY and then make sure everything still lines up.

I used to add the spreadsheets to the report but since no one was really bothering to look at them, I no longer add them. Looking at the latest report from Spain, the spreadsheet has been downloaded 3 times and I think I am the one who looked at it (I know for certain that I did it twice as I looked at it a few hours ago wondering if I had looked at it before and I looked at a few moments ago since I was not sure if I had looked at it to see if I had looked at it).

... speaking of spreadsheets, I noticed that there is an error in the dollar cost formula for Fortified lines as it is looking to see whether the line is new or not in the fortresses section and not in the fortified lines section.

... and speaking of fortified lines, there were a few things I was wondering about with them, but I don't think this is the right thread for it.

[snip]

I've got some addtional thoughts, but want to give the others a chance to weigh in before posting them publicly. Check your PMs.

[olekit24]

To fill report takes about one hour if the player knows what he want to reach. Player may publish only announcement with changes and achievements and attach the report file to the post.  I have made drafrs of reports for about 10 years to the future. I'll just change some data before publish the report.

As for players, half a year has passed since last activity. Of course players just lost interest to the game. Snip can write to those guys and ask them if they will continue to play.

As for small nations... We can change that by giving to them control on their neighbours (Italy - Austro-Hungary, France - Belgium+Netherlands+danmark+Norway and Sweden),  China can take control over Korea and Vietnam with all the islands (and maybe Phillipinas) Spain - Portugal.  All nations which has lost ther layers just turn off to NPC and let moderator to to act on their behalf.

And as Waltes said continue forward to every new H every two weeks (or three). And search for new players...

[snip]

The problem with lumping powers together at this juncture is it would throw the balance between nations out the window. At that point it would be a de-facto whole new game. Im not opposed out of hand to such a drastic step, but if its what we decide we want to do I've got ideas about how to make it easier.

Im very hesitant to contact people until we have something that works. Continue yanking people's chains with jerky restarts and eventually they will just not come back.