New French Battleships

[Tanthalas]

French ships are ALWAYS ugly.
Borys

its a rule isnt it?

[maddox]

But very seaworthy, can't have wet turrets, don't we.

And it's a French feature since I do the springsharps. A massive bow to part the sea in an aggressive move.

So, what would you propose otherwise Jef?

Occitanie should be a beauty.

[Jefgte]

forecastle 25%...6.2m

[maddox]

wet ship forward then
No thanks, we can't use seawater in the crew quarters.

[Jefgte]

No

From 5.2 to 6.2 at 25%

[maddox]

This better?

Occitanie, French GBB laid down 1913 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   35.010 t light; 37.418 t standard; 40.602 t normal; 43.149 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,75 ft / 715,22 ft x 108,27 ft x 30,18 ft (normal load)
   219,99 m / 218,00 m x 33,00 m  x 9,20 m

Armament:
      12 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      20 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (10x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 23.589 lbs / 10.700 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   410,00 ft / 124,97 m   22,00 ft / 6,71 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 88% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   407,68 ft / 124,26 m   29,00 ft / 8,84 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3,25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 13,00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48.001 shp / 35.809 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.731 tons

Complement:
   1.429 - 1.859

Cost:
   £4,168 million / $16,672 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.726 tons, 6,7%
   Armour: 13.607 tons, 33,5%
      - Belts: 5.265 tons, 13,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 875 tons, 2,2%
      - Armament: 3.705 tons, 9,1%
      - Armour Deck: 3.431 tons, 8,4%
      - Conning Tower: 331 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 2.182 tons, 5,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.895 tons, 39,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.592 tons, 13,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     51.193 lbs / 23.221 Kg = 30,6 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 8,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 6,6 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 17,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,608
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2,43 ft / 0,74 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,20 ft / 8,90 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   20,34 ft / 6,20 m
      - Mid (50%):      17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (18%):   17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Stern:      17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,18 ft / 5,85 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135,2%
   Waterplane Area: 57.060 Square feet or 5.301 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 212 lbs/sq ft or 1.033 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



Misc weigth
250 tons FC
100 tons ears
100 tons Admirals quarters
100 tons crew comfort
50 tons to be assigned

[Jefgte]

...and seaboat quality increase to 1.27
thanks for the crew & ...the wine  :D

;)

[maddox]

Had to shave off .25" of deck armor.  Now it's the feeble 3.25"

[Sachmle]

Oh..heavens..3.25" now a 15" shell could penetrate it from 20kyds..damn

[maddox]

Somebody is complaining about the cost of battleships. So a small design is forwarded, using every modern trick in the French inventory of tricks.

Petite, French  battleship laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   20.984 t light; 22.444 t standard; 25.532 t normal; 28.002 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557,74 ft / 554,46 ft x 98,43 ft x 25,43 ft (normal load)
   170,00 m / 169,00 m x 30,00 m  x 7,75 m

Armament:
      6 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (2x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns (3 mounts), 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12.372 lbs / 5.612 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 135

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   282,78 ft / 86,19 m   23,00 ft / 7,01 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 78% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,25" / 57 mm   282,78 ft / 86,19 m   24,35 ft / 7,42 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,75" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 33.480 shp / 24.976 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 7.500nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.558 tons

Complement:
   1.009 - 1.312

Cost:
   £3,471 million / $13,884 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.428 tons, 5,6%
   Armour: 8.192 tons, 32,1%
      - Belts: 3.713 tons, 14,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 573 tons, 2,2%
      - Armament: 1.566 tons, 6,1%
      - Armour Deck: 2.115 tons, 8,3%
      - Conning Tower: 224 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.335 tons, 5,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.629 tons, 37,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.548 tons, 17,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,6% Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37.019 lbs / 16.791 Kg = 22,1 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 7,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 6,5 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 16,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,644
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (30%):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Mid (65%):      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (19%):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Stern:      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,94 ft / 4,86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,9%
   Waterplane Area: 41.576 Square feet or 3.863 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 182 lbs/sq ft or 890 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,53
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC
50 tons ears
50 tons crew comfort
50 tons admirals cabin

[Jefgte]

IMO, much small BBs are also better in tactical use.


;)

[maddox]

The same numbers in BIG battleships are better  ;)

[Borys]

The design needs further work.
The MB is too short, and the artillery way too weak.
If ship size is an issue, then 4x2x34cm is the way to go.
ONLY six guns in ONLY two turrets? And all forward? This is no ship-of-the-line.

Borys

[maddox]

This better Borys?
A tad heavier broadside
Less secundaries. Bit more range and a belt that rectified the few inches I overlooked somewere.

Petite, French  battleship laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   21.215 t light; 22.603 t standard; 25.928 t normal; 28.589 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557,74 ft / 554,46 ft x 98,43 ft x 25,43 ft (normal load)
   170,00 m / 169,00 m x 30,00 m  x 7,75 m

Armament:
      9 - 13,39" / 340 mm guns (2 mounts), 1.322,77lbs / 600,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised guns
      8 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (1x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      3 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12.862 lbs / 5.834 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   285,55 ft / 87,04 m   23,00 ft / 7,01 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 79% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,25" / 57 mm   285,55 ft / 87,04 m   24,37 ft / 7,43 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,75" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 33.930 shp / 25.312 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.986 tons

Complement:
   1.021 - 1.328

Cost:
   £3,529 million / $14,115 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.458 tons, 5,6%
   Armour: 8.271 tons, 31,9%
      - Belts: 3.742 tons, 14,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 579 tons, 2,2%
      - Armament: 1.589 tons, 6,1%
      - Armour Deck: 2.135 tons, 8,2%
      - Conning Tower: 226 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 1.353 tons, 5,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.733 tons, 37,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.714 tons, 18,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38.130 lbs / 17.295 Kg = 31,8 x 13,4 " / 340 mm shells or 7,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
   Metacentric height 6,7 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (30%):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Mid (65%):      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (19%):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Stern:      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,93 ft / 4,85 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,6%
   Waterplane Area: 41.960 Square feet or 3.898 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 892 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,45
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform   
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC
50 tons ears
50 tons crew comfort
50 tons admirals cabin

[Korpen]

Armament:
      9 - 13,39" / 340 mm guns (2 mounts), 1.322,77lbs / 600,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised guns

The three-gun turret raised aft and the six-gun turret forward? ;)