Technology and Research changes

[snip]

Sort of. With KWorlds input it now start at the same time as direct-drive, so a dependency makes little sense. However, starting with electric drive means it's getting more difficult to get the other techs.

I would rather see the TE drive start with the 1905 tech having 1902 turbines as the pre-rec. Navalized turbines would still be needed before they could be paired with TE gear.

And I think it's important to allow switching. But you would always be behind if you do, if you have to move "sideways" in my table. By the way we do have one other table like mine already - for the guns. Cheaper yes, but we have nothing to speed things up, do we?

Im still mulling over how best to modify research time (most likely replacing the current N3 time modification for older tech). I really do not want to have to deal with jumping around different trees. From the standpoint of making sure that research is valid, it is much harder.

[Tanthalas]

the thing is the more complex we make things, the more dificult it becomes for not only the mods but the players as well to keep track of.  We end up not exactly sure if what we want to research is legit or not, allowing people to go sidewase only makes this issue worse from my perspective.  Also as I pointed out on the previous page there is a system inplace already to allow you to catch up on tech, which like it or not honestly works.

[KWorld]

On T-E plants and their availability date, keep in mind that Parson's first successful  turbine (1884) was connected to a dynamo generating electricity.  There's nothing technical preventing Turbinia from having been powered by a T-E plant, it was simpler and more straight forward to use a direct connection to the turbines but it could have been done.

[snip]

simpler and more straight forward to use a direct connection to the turbines

Hence why I feel that there needs to be a slight gap between turbines in general and TE setups.

[Nobody]

the thing is the more complex we make things, the more dificult it becomes for not only the mods but the players as well to keep track of.  We end up not exactly sure if what we want to research is legit or not, allowing people to go sidewase only makes this issue worse from my perspective.

Okay, I understand. Lets look for a better way of doing things then.

Also as I pointed out on the previous page there is a system inplace already to allow you to catch up on tech, which like it or not honestly works.

I think it was introduced only right before the end. And only for really dated stuff (like 10+ years old). Not really helpful in this case I think.

On T-E plants and their availability date, keep in mind that Parson's first successful  turbine (1884) was connected to a dynamo generating electricity.  There's nothing technical preventing Turbinia from having been powered by a T-E plant, it was simpler and more straight forward to use a direct connection to the turbines but it could have been done.

Except that electric motors and generators were quite weak at that time.

[snip]

I think it was introduced only right before the end. And only for really dated stuff (like 10+ years old). Not really helpful in this case I think.

Im thinking about how best to alter the research time relative to the difference between tech year and game year.

[Tanthalas]

I honestly cant remember when it came in, that said it was a fairly efective catch up tool (I know I used it for things like torps and mines for Rohan).

I think it was introduced only right before the end. And only for really dated stuff (like 10+ years old). Not really helpful in this case I think.

Im thinking about how best to alter the research time relative to the difference between tech year and game year.

[Delta Force]

Can I use oil propulsion on the Rostislav and mixed oil firing on the Potemkin as historically used (and only them) or are the rules absolute? The Black Sea Fleet experimented with oil because it was cheaper to import it from Baku than to bring in coal, but the early oil burners had problems with their boilers. Just wondering if an allowance can be made for them if everyone is okay with it. It would be more storyline than anything.

[snip]

The rules are absolute

[Logi]

I'm fairly certain it came into effect in the last year or two years of the sim - I remember having great trouble modernizing RRC and having to spend large amount of cash to research very outdated tech. If it had been effect early it would have dramatically impacted my nation so I'm sure I would have remembered it.

I honestly cant remember when it came in, that said it was a fairly efective catch up tool (I know I used it for things like torps and mines for Rohan).

I think it was introduced only right before the end. And only for really dated stuff (like 10+ years old). Not really helpful in this case I think.

Im thinking about how best to alter the research time relative to the difference between tech year and game year.

[Desertfox]

I'm looking at the current tech rules and I think they are growing too complex. Can I suggest an alternate system that simplifies certain aspects while still retaining stuff such as the engine options?

[Tanthalas]

That has been my complaint all along =P I was simply for taking snips proposal and runing with it.  That said the vote is over (atleast its unstikied) and the overwelming majority went for the plan presented by Nobody.  Now its just some fine tuning and thats the plan, honestly the time to present a plan was about a week ago when the poll first went up (if not even before that).

I'm looking at the current tech rules and I think they are growing too complex. Can I suggest an alternate system that simplifies certain aspects while still retaining stuff such as the engine options?

[snip]

So considering this is a research-base area, figured I would bring it up.

I was thinking last night between rounds of the Return to Ravnica pre-release party about startup naval guns. Seeing as we will have cash surplusses at game start, I feel that we can pay for the development of guns and mountings during that period. The rules for such are reproduced below.

RESEARCHING NAVAL GUNS

Gun technology allows the development of better and better guns of the same caliber, represented in gun barrel length from thirty to sixty calibers, as represented in the table below in different colors.  It also allows for movement to larger bore diameters.  The numbers are the approximate muzzle energy in million lbs x ft^2/s^2.  If someone wants to use ahistorical designs, a good correlation for muzzle energy as a function of gun barrel length and bore diameter for guns of the 1900-1945 period is:

ME=0.04 x L x D^3

Where E is expressed in million lb.ft^2/s^2
L length of barrel in caliber
D diameter of barrel bore in inches

One may also opt to use period-appropriate historical guns if they prefer.

You can develop a gun, if:
- you have the relevant gun technology (the row)
- you already have a gun design not more than two spaces away (moving up/down and left/right) in the table above.

Maximum Bore Diameter 30 Tech 18" 16" 15" 14" 12" 11" 10" 9" 8" 35 1885 - - - 2500 2000 2000 1100 1100 800 40 1895 - - - 3200 2500 2200 1700 1500 900 45 1900 - - - - 3000 2700 - - - - 1902 - - - 4200 3300 - 2100 1700 1000 50 1907 - - 5200 4700 3600 2900 - - - - 1911 - 6500 5800 5100 - - 2500 1900 1100 55 1915 9700 7100 6400 5500 3900 3100 - - - - 1921 10300 8200 7200 5900 4200 3300 2800 2100 1200 60 1928 10900 9500 7800 - - - - - -

Costs

For guns larger than 8.27"/210mm, it takes two years to research, at a cost of $0.50 per half-year.
For guns no larger than 8.27"/210mm, the research time is the same, but the cost is halved to $0.25 per half-year.

There is no need to research single deck mounts (+/- hoists) and casemates for guns of 8.27"/210mm and smaller.  Turrets and multi-gun deck mounts for these weapons require six months per gun barrel, at a cost of $0.25 per half-year.

For any type of mount with a gun larger than 8.27"/210mm, six months of development is required per barrel, at a cost of $0.50 per half-year.

Guns and their mountings may be researched simultaneously.

A nation may acquire gun and/or gun mount licences from another nation.  The development time of this equipment is halved (with the half-year costs being unaffected), and the weapons may then be used as the basis for future development of new weapons.

Effectivly this makes the costs for guns and mountings designed during turn-0 the folowing, seeing as we dont have distinct halves.

• For any gun over 8.27"/210mm, the cost of developing the gun is $2
• The cost of mounts for guns over 8.27"/210mm is $0.50 times the number of barrels (1 or 2)
• For any gun no larger then 8.27"/210mm, the cost of developing the gun is $1
• The cost of mounts for guns no larger then 8.27"/210mm is $0.25 times the number of barrels (1 or 2). Note that single casemates and single deck mounts do not need to be researched for these guns.

As a hard rule on what guns can be in service where, I am thinking anything that would be developable under the 1895 tech can be used on startup ships, and anything developable under the 1900 tech can be ready for use on ships layed down January 1st, 1900. Does that seem workable?

[Tanthalas]

*shrugs* we all have leftover cash so I see absolutly no problem with that.  lets me have my 11/45 ready to rip on my first post startup BBs.

[Delta Force]

Can L40 12 inch guns be made legal under the rules as shown in that table? Everyone is using the L40s anyways and they do have precedent in this era.