France ships

[Jefgte]

Torpilleur Rafale, France T250t laid down 1898

Displacement:
   244 t light; 250 t standard; 261 t normal; 270 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (147.65 ft / 147.65 ft) x 15.10 ft x (10.24 / 10.47 ft)
   (45.00 m / 45.00 m) x 4.60 m  x (3.12 / 3.19 m)

Armament:
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.19lbs / 1.45kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 2 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 7 lbs / 3 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.671 t each, 1.342 t total
   In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 6 071 ihp / 4 529 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 400nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 20 tons (90% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   32 - 42

Cost:
   £0.032 million / $0.128 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 1.3 %
      - Guns: 2 tons, 0.6 %
      - Weapons: 2 tons, 0.6 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 165 tons, 63.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 70 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 17 tons, 6.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46 lbs / 21 Kg = 14.6 x 1.9 " / 47 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 10.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.405
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  9.52 ft / 2.90 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  9.52 ft / 2.90 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  7.22 ft / 2.20 m
      - Quarter deck:   25.00 %,  7.22 ft / 2.20 m,  6.22 ft / 1.90 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.37 ft / 2.55 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 205.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 64.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 1 372 Square feet or 127 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 13 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 87 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 6.07
      - Overall: 0.64
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Jefgte]

Contre Torpilleur, France Cassini laid down 1895

Displacement:
   927 t light; 960 t standard; 1 140 t normal; 1 284 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (272.02 ft / 269.02 ft) x 27.22 ft x (11.47 / 12.53 ft)
   (82.91 m / 82.00 m) x 8.30 m  x (3.50 / 3.82 m)

Armament:
      3 - 3.95" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 31.12lbs / 14.12kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 3.03lbs / 1.38kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 99 lbs / 45 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.607 t each, 2.429 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 9 492 ihp / 7 081 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 2 900nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 324 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   97 - 127

Cost:
   £0.137 million / $0.548 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 21 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 16 tons, 1.4 %
      - Weapons: 5 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 713 tons, 62.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 186 tons, 16.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 213 tons, 18.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 2 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     192 lbs / 87 Kg = 6.2 x 4.0 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.67
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 8.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.475 / 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   22.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  9.20 ft / 2.80 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  9.20 ft / 2.80 m,  9.20 ft / 2.80 m
      - Aft deck:   31.00 %,  9.20 ft / 2.80 m,  9.20 ft / 2.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   22.00 %,  9.20 ft / 2.80 m,  9.20 ft / 2.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.37 ft / 2.86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 206.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 66.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 771 Square feet or 443 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 35 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 115 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.84
      - Overall: 0.53
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[KWorld]

Big for the period, seems kind of slow until you remember that the typical BB speed for the era is 16-18 knots.  Wouldn't think she'd need 4 shafts, though.

[Jefgte]

Contre Torpilleur, France Cassini laid down 1895

Displacement:
   927 t light; 960 t standard; 1 140 t normal; 1 284 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (272.02 ft / 269.02 ft) x 27.22 ft x (11.47 / 12.53 ft)
   (82.91 m / 82.00 m) x 8.30 m  x (3.50 / 3.82 m)

Armament:
      3 - 3.95" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 31.12lbs / 14.12kg shells, 170 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      1 raised mount
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 3.03lbs / 1.38kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 99 lbs / 45 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.607 t each, 2.429 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 9 492 ihp / 7 081 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 2 900nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 324 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   97 - 127

Cost:
   £0.137 million / $0.548 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 21 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 16 tons, 1.4 %
      - Weapons: 5 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 713 tons, 62.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 184 tons, 16.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 213 tons, 18.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 0.4 %
      - On freeboard deck: 4 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     175 lbs / 80 Kg = 5.7 x 4.0 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.55
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 9.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.475 / 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   18.00 %,  15.10 ft / 4.60 m,  15.10 ft / 4.60 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   22.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.44 ft / 2.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 206.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 58.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 771 Square feet or 443 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 35 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 113 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.84
      - Overall: 0.53
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Jefgte]

Big for the period, seems kind of slow until you remember that the typical BB speed for the era is 16-18 knots.  Wouldn't think she'd need 4 shafts, though.

Typical for the French period.
Original built "Aviso Torpilleur"
I reclass that class " ContreTorpilleur"
My sources;

http://guy.joly1.free.fr/tableau-honneur-guerre-navale-torpilleurs.html

& this other

http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Forum-Pages-d-Histoire-aviation-marine/marine-1914-1918/recapitulatif-torpilleurs-contre-sujet_651_1.htm

Jef

[Jefgte]

Contre Torpilleur, France Cassini laid down 1893

Displacement:
   925 t light; 960 t standard; 1 154 t normal; 1 310 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (272.02 ft / 269.02 ft) x 27.22 ft x (11.47 / 12.60 ft)
   (82.91 m / 82.00 m) x 8.30 m  x (3.50 / 3.84 m)

Armament:
      3 - 3.95" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 31.12lbs / 14.12kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1893 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 3.03lbs / 1.38kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1893 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 99 lbs / 45 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.607 t each, 2.429 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8 056 ihp / 6 010 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 350 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   98 - 128

Cost:
   £0.135 million / $0.538 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 21 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 16 tons, 1.4 %
      - Weapons: 5 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 695 tons, 60.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 179 tons, 15.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 229 tons, 19.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 2.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     170 lbs / 77 Kg = 5.5 x 4.0 " / 100 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.481 / 0.497
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  7.55 ft / 2.30 m,  7.55 ft / 2.30 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  7.55 ft / 2.30 m,  7.55 ft / 2.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m,  11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.99 ft / 2.74 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 198.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 54.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 796 Square feet or 446 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 40 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 112 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.73
      - Overall: 0.52
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[KWorld]

Given the small size of period torpedo boats, you might consider going to the historical armament of 1 x 100mm and 3 x 65mm guns vs the 3 x 100mm armament you have.   Extra barrel, more shots, etc.

[Jefgte]

Given the small size of period torpedo boats, you might consider going to the historical armament of 1 x 100mm and 3 x 65mm guns vs the 3 x 100mm armament you have.   Extra barrel, more shots, etc.

This class was mane alternatively "Aviso Torpilleur" or "Croiseur Torpilleur".
Original armement was with 65mm guns. But the War Minister (Me), in 1899, change to 100mm.

I am not very pleasant with the French original armement choice.
In my futur SS, I probably rework the choice & qty of guns.
Note, dimensions & displacement are = to the original 1893 concept.

[KWorld]

By 1899-1900. with more destroyers and bigger TBs running around, upgunning makes some sense.

[Jefgte]

Hmmmm...

The 65 mm gun is interresting.

http://atf40.forumculture.net/t2743-canon-de-65-mm-de-marine-anti-chars

Jef

[Jefgte]

Cassini class, 3 ships, was equiped with armor. A light 25mm belt & a 15mm deck.

Contre Torpilleur, France Cassini laid down 1893

Displacement:
   924 t light; 960 t standard; 1 074 t normal; 1 165 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (272.02 ft / 269.02 ft) x 27.22 ft x (11.47 / 12.15 ft)
   (82.91 m / 82.00 m) x 8.30 m  x (3.50 / 3.70 m)

Armament:
      3 - 3.95" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 31.13lbs / 14.12kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1893 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 8.04lbs / 3.65kg shells, 500 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1893 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 109 lbs / 50 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 18.0" / 457 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.569 t each, 2.276 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.99" / 25 mm   269.02 ft / 82.00 m   7.89 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.59" / 15 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 471 ihp / 4 082 Kw = 21.20 kts
   Range 2 730nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 205 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   93 - 121

Cost:
   £0.117 million / $0.468 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 22 tons, 2.1 %
      - Guns: 18 tons, 1.6 %
      - Weapons: 5 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 122 tons, 11.3 %
      - Belts: 78 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 39 tons, 3.7 %
   Machinery: 567 tons, 52.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 203 tons, 18.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 150 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.9 %
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     231 lbs / 105 Kg = 7.5 x 4.0 " / 100 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 92 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.85

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.448 / 0.458
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  15.10 ft / 4.60 m,  15.10 ft / 4.60 m
      - Forward deck:   25.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  15.10 ft / 4.60 m,  15.10 ft / 4.60 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.96 ft / 3.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 59.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 661 Square feet or 433 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 51 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 116 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.29
      - Overall: 0.55
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Jefgte]

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[Jefgte]

Here is the first SS of the AC Jeanne d'Arc.
I have in the idea to change 8x140 nearly superfiring, under fore & aft bridge, by 4x194 in casemates or turrets...study to made.

11100t, France AC Jeanne d'Arc laid down 1896

Displacement:
   10 707 t light; 11 100 t standard; 11 861 t normal; 12 470 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (477.72 ft / 475.72 ft) x 63.65 ft x (26.55 / 27.59 ft)
   (145.61 m / 145.00 m) x 19.40 m  x (8.09 / 8.41 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.65" / 194 mm 40.0 cal guns - 214.54lbs / 97.31kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      14 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 83.90lbs / 38.05kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
     14 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      16 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.19lbs / 1.45kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
     16 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      16 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1 901 lbs / 862 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.609 t each, 1.217 t total
   In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.90" / 150 mm   430.00 ft / 131.06 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.95" / 50 mm     30.00 ft / 9.14 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
     15.72 ft / 4.79 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.95" / 50 mm   430.00 ft / 131.06 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 139 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.30" / 160 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      5.50" / 140 mm
   2nd:   3.93" / 100 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.55" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1.20" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.20" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.90" / 150 mm, Aft 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 28 541 ihp / 21 292 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 370 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   567 - 738

Cost:
   £1.147 million / $4.588 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 334 tons, 2.8 %
      - Guns: 333 tons, 2.8 %
      - Weapons: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 2 611 tons, 22.0 %
      - Belts: 1 337 tons, 11.3 %
      - Armament: 268 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 896 tons, 7.6 %
      - Conning Towers: 110 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4 757 tons, 40.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 904 tons, 24.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 154 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 566 lbs / 2 978 Kg = 29.3 x 7.7 " / 194 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.51
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 11.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.36

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.516 / 0.522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.47 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   16.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   52.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Aft deck:   18.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarter deck:   14.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.24 ft / 4.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 138.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 20 480 Square feet or 1 903 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 478 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

The nearly right SS of AC Jeanne d'Arc;
11270t, France AC Jeanne d'Arc laid down 1896

Displacement:
   10 852 t light; 11 270 t standard; 12 038 t normal; 12 652 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (477.72 ft / 475.72 ft) x 63.65 ft x (26.56 / 27.60 ft)
   (145.61 m / 145.00 m) x 19.40 m  x (8.10 / 8.41 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.65" / 194 mm 40.0 cal guns - 214.53lbs / 97.31kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      14 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 83.91lbs / 38.06kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
     14 x Single mounts on side ends, majority forward
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.20lbs / 1.45kg shells, 400 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
     16 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      16 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1 655 lbs / 751 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.609 t each, 1.217 t total
   submerged side tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.90" / 150 mm   423.22 ft / 129.00 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.95" / 50 mm     52.00 ft / 15.85 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
     0.50 ft / 0.15 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.95" / 50 mm   423.22 ft / 129.00 m   6.55 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 137 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.30" / 160 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      5.50" / 140 mm
   2nd:   3.93" / 100 mm         -         2.55" / 65 mm
   4th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.55" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1.20" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.20" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.90" / 150 mm, Aft 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 28 500 ihp / 21 261 Kw = 22.92 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 382 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   574 - 747

Cost:
   £1.139 million / $4.557 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 297 tons, 2.5 %
      - Guns: 294 tons, 2.4 %
      - Weapons: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 2 499 tons, 20.8 %
      - Belts: 1 225 tons, 10.2 %
      - Armament: 287 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 874 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 111 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4 750 tons, 39.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 257 tons, 27.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 186 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.4 %
      - On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 776 lbs / 3 527 Kg = 34.7 x 7.7 " / 194 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 92 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.84

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.524 / 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.47 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   16.00 %,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forward deck:   54.00 %,  21.97 ft / 6.70 m,  21.97 ft / 6.70 m
      - Aft deck:   10.00 %,  14.10 ft / 4.30 m,  14.10 ft / 4.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  14.10 ft / 4.30 m,  14.10 ft / 4.30 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.83 ft / 6.04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 136.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 20 623 Square feet or 1 916 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 489 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather.


& the rebuilt in 1899, hope by the Minister of War (me) with 4 x194 in casemates in place of 8x140 under the bridges.

11270t, France AC Jeanne d'Arc laid down 1896

Displacement:
   10 854 t light; 11 270 t standard; 12 038 t normal; 12 652 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (477.72 ft / 475.72 ft) x 63.65 ft x (26.56 / 27.60 ft)
   (145.61 m / 145.00 m) x 19.40 m  x (8.10 / 8.41 m)

Armament:
      2 - 7.65" / 194 mm 40.0 cal guns - 214.53lbs / 97.31kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1896 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 7.65" / 194 mm 45.0 cal guns - 214.53lbs / 97.31kg shells, 140 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1896 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      6 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 83.91lbs / 38.06kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 8.47lbs / 3.84kg shells, 400 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
      4 raised mounts
      8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.20lbs / 1.45kg shells, 400 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1896 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1 895 lbs / 860 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.609 t each, 1.217 t total
   submerged side tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.90" / 150 mm   423.22 ft / 129.00 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.95" / 50 mm     52.00 ft / 15.85 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
     0.50 ft / 0.15 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.95" / 50 mm   423.22 ft / 129.00 m   6.55 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 137 % of normal length
   

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.30" / 160 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      5.50" / 140 mm
   2nd:   5.50" / 140 mm   1.20" / 30 mm      5.50" / 140 mm
   3rd:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.55" / 65 mm
   Forecastle: 1.20" / 30 mm  Quarter deck: 1.20" / 30 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.90" / 150 mm, Aft 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 28 500 ihp / 21 261 Kw = 22.92 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 382 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   574 - 747

Cost:
   £1.150 million / $4.601 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 329 tons, 2.7 %
      - Guns: 326 tons, 2.7 %
      - Weapons: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 2 458 tons, 20.4 %
      - Belts: 1 225 tons, 10.2 %
      - Armament: 246 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 874 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 111 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4 750 tons, 39.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 276 tons, 27.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 184 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 42 tons, 0.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 42 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 634 lbs / 3 463 Kg = 34.1 x 7.7 " / 194 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 91 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.83

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.524 / 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.47 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   16.00 %,  23.95 ft / 7.30 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forward deck:   54.00 %,  21.97 ft / 6.70 m,  21.97 ft / 6.70 m
      - Aft deck:   10.00 %,  14.10 ft / 4.30 m,  14.10 ft / 4.30 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  14.10 ft / 4.30 m,  14.10 ft / 4.30 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.83 ft / 6.04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 137.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 20 623 Square feet or 1 916 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 495 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.14
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[KWorld]

Hmmm.  Is she undergoing this rebuild before she's commissioned?

I'd worry about lack of anti-TB firepower, with only 3 140mms per side after this refit, though you did add a pair of 65mms as well.