Royal Order of the Five Angels Navy

[KWorld]

Upashan - speed seems a bit low for a DD, is it going to be fast enough to do it's job, against contemporary CLs?

[snip]

Bellerophon - I'm not sure about the armor layout on this one: it looks like your main belt is only covering 1m of the hull above water, with the rest of the hull protected by the upper belt, which is a lot thinner..

Chimarea - There's a problem with the 130mm casemate guns: you've got 13 of them, in hull side mounts.  Same issue with the armor scheme already mentioned.  Also, the 80mm's are probably quick-loading vs breech-loading.

Abraxas - Same issue with armor scheme, but worse now because of the low aft freeboard.

Tochitil - "Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces".

Faith - You don't need this:
Main Torpedoes
      4 - 21.7" / 550 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 1.512 t each, 6.049 t total
   submerged side tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      12 - 21.7" / 550 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 1.512 t each, 18.146 t total
   below water reloads
Also, quite large and long torps for 1907.

Arwing - Similar to Faith, though with shorter and smaller torps.  Probably want to beef up the description of the torpedo situation, though.

Gamma - Why is this a TBD, vs a TB?  Size says TB, and armament doesn't contradict that.....  Also lacks any light anti-flyer battery.

Well...the Bellerophon is meant to be a colossal screw up. I want a storyline reason to scare my "designers" away from superfireing turrets. Given the attempt at 230mm guns doing just that, they will be a reason for suppefireing being a late-addopted feature of Confederation warships. Even tho it is hardly the worst thing wrong with the Bellerophon, it is the "great leap forward" with the design, hence will get the blame for its failing. This is without regard to the other componates of the warship which are clearly flawed.

Abraxas is meant to be the first step away from the Coast Defense ships that would be the newest warships scraped under the treaty. The armor is less then optimal for that reason.

Chimarea: The armor is better then the Bellerophon, but the less then optimal scheme is ment for design linage. They get one thing "right" (as in it is the gateway to Gangute style layouts, which is what I want) which is AQY. Armor will be "fixed" in the next BB (and the Dreadnaught Armored Cruiser that I have planned) That 13th 130mm is at the stern ala USN Standards.

Tochitil: *faceplams* It all fits, just forgot an adjustment after tweeking SHP.

Faith and Arwing: All the torps have period precedents via NavWeaps, will provide the torps used on request. The designs did not original have torps, so I forgot to remove them after adding Misc weight. As weight is allocated for them, it makes little difference. Arwing's layout is the same as Faith's, design linage and all ;)

Gamma: My TB's will be smaller, just haven't simmed them yet. The 80mm guns make it a TBD, as is the same for the Upashan class. TBs will have no gun larger then 50mm or so. I really need to write up my designation list so its clear why things are called what they are. Lack of MGs or Gattlings is due to the hull being unable to take them and keep its speed, she is a rather tight design.

Upashan: That is practically all the speed I can get out of the hull and still have it stay in one chunk. Its based of a historical Russian design from the period, so speed should be adequate for a time (maybe shorter then I realize). I would try moving up the laydown, but I am trying to build 20 of them (plus some modified versions which are in the works) so want to have plenty of time. This sheads a bit of light onto the Pontiaca Class as then are meant to work with these ships as the line opener for the Upashans and Gammas to run though. Only combat will tell how well this idea works.

[KWorld]

Bellerophon - I'm not sure about the armor layout on this one: it looks like your main belt is only covering 1m of the hull above water, with the rest of the hull protected by the upper belt, which is a lot thinner..

Chimarea - There's a problem with the 130mm casemate guns: you've got 13 of them, in hull side mounts.  Same issue with the armor scheme already mentioned.  Also, the 80mm's are probably quick-loading vs breech-loading.

Abraxas - Same issue with armor scheme, but worse now because of the low aft freeboard.

Tochitil - "Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces".

Faith - You don't need this:
Main Torpedoes
      4 - 21.7" / 550 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 1.512 t each, 6.049 t total
   submerged side tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      12 - 21.7" / 550 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 1.512 t each, 18.146 t total
   below water reloads
Also, quite large and long torps for 1907.

Arwing - Similar to Faith, though with shorter and smaller torps.  Probably want to beef up the description of the torpedo situation, though.

Gamma - Why is this a TBD, vs a TB?  Size says TB, and armament doesn't contradict that.....  Also lacks any light anti-flyer battery.

Well...the Bellerophon is meant to be a colossal screw up. I want a storyline reason to scare my "designers" away from superfireing turrets. Given the attempt at 230mm guns doing just that, they will be a reason for suppefireing being a late-addopted feature of Confederation warships. Even tho it is hardly the worst thing wrong with the Bellerophon, it is the "great leap forward" with the design, hence will get the blame for its failing. This is without regard to the other componates of the warship which are clearly flawed.

Abraxas is meant to be the first step away from the Coast Defense ships that would be the newest warships scraped under the treaty. The armor is less then optimal for that reason.

Chimarea: The armor is better then the Bellerophon, but the less then optimal scheme is ment for design linage. They get one thing "right" (as in it is the gateway to Gangute style layouts, which is what I want) which is AQY. Armor will be "fixed" in the next BB (and the Dreadnaught Armored Cruiser that I have planned) That 13th 130mm is at the stern ala USN Standards.

Tochitil: *faceplams* It all fits, just forgot an adjustment after tweeking SHP.

Faith and Arwing: All the torps have period precedents via NavWeaps, will provide the torps used on request. The designs did not original have torps, so I forgot to remove them after adding Misc weight. As weight is allocated for them, it makes little difference. Arwing's layout is the same as Faith's, design linage and all ;)

Gamma: My TB's will be smaller, just haven't simmed them yet. The 80mm guns make it a TBD, as is the same for the Upashan class. TBs will have no gun larger then 50mm or so. I really need to write up my designation list so its clear why things are called what they are. Lack of MGs or Gattlings is due to the hull being unable to take them and keep its speed, she is a rather tight design.

Upashan: That is practically all the speed I can get out of the hull and still have it stay in one chunk. Its based of a historical Russian design from the period, so speed should be adequate for a time (maybe shorter then I realize). I would try moving up the laydown, but I am trying to build 20 of them (plus some modified versions which are in the works) so want to have plenty of time. This sheads a bit of light onto the Pontiaca Class as then are meant to work with these ships as the line opener for the Upashans and Gammas to run though. Only combat will tell how well this idea works.

On the Chimarea - Luckily SS3 allows you to code 2 separate mounting locations for a single gun type, so if she's intended to have a stern chaser, it's easy enough to do in the program.

The problem I can foresee for her is that by the time period they're being built, I expect CL's to have a top speed of 26 kts or more, which means they're basically immune to your TBDs unless the CL blunders into an ambush where groups of TBDs are coming in a star-pattern, and even then.  If they're ONLY going to ever be used against a slow battleline or in support of your own battleline, it might be OK.

[snip]

Matriarch Class, Royal Confederation of the Five Angels Destroyer laid down 1908

Displacement:
   471 t light; 490 t standard; 615 t normal; 715 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (246.06 ft / 246.06 ft) x 26.25 ft x (8.20 / 9.08 ft)
   (75.00 m / 75.00 m) x 8.00 m  x (2.50 / 2.77 m)

Armament:
      3 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 16.53lbs / 7.50kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 450 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 50 lbs / 23 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,502 shp / 6,343 Kw = 25.58 kts
   Range 5,100nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 225 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   61 - 80

Cost:
   £0.063 million / $0.252 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 11 tons, 1.7 %
      - Guns: 11 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 312 tons, 50.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 134 tons, 21.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 144 tons, 23.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7 tons, 1.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 7 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     196 lbs / 89 Kg = 12.6 x 3.1 " / 80 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.61
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 9.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.406 / 0.427
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.30 ft / 3.75 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Aft deck:   50.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.42 ft / 2.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,990 Square feet or 371 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 103 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.05
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Note: 6.5t of Misc weight for 4 550mm 7m torpedoes in two twin tubes.
10 Ships in Class: Hull numbers TBD-42 to TBD-52

[snip]

Matchstick Class, Royal Order of the Five Angels Destroyer-Gunboat laid down 1908

Displacement:
   468 t light; 499 t standard; 614 t normal; 707 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (246.06 ft / 246.06 ft) x 26.25 ft x (8.20 / 9.01 ft)
   (75.00 m / 75.00 m) x 8.00 m  x (2.50 / 2.75 m)

Armament:
      8 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 16.53lbs / 7.50kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 450 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 133 lbs / 60 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,496 shp / 6,338 Kw = 25.58 kts
   Range 4,900nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 208 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   61 - 80

Cost:
   £0.066 million / $0.264 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 23 tons, 3.7 %
      - Guns: 23 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 301 tons, 49.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 134 tons, 21.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 146 tons, 23.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     193 lbs / 88 Kg = 12.4 x 3.1 " / 80 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.66
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 8.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.406 / 0.425
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  13.94 ft / 4.25 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m,  11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Aft deck:   50.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.55 ft / 2.91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,990 Square feet or 371 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 107 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.12
      - Overall: 0.54
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

6 Ships in Class: Hull numbers FGB-01 to FGB-06