Nova Francia Fleet

[Carthaginian]

Jef - displacements for ships are NORMAL Tonnage, that is in the rules/treaty. Also the Invincible-type ship will have to come in 1910 or later as that is a clear-cut 'dreadnought' design. I don't think that anyone has done a 15,000 ton cruiser yet, though historically several British AC's of the period were close... and maybe even bigger.

[snip]

See this post for a 15000t AC, and I know Valles has one as well. This is about the limit that ACs got to prior to the Invincible.

Remember everyone, no dreadnaughts can be layed down before the game starts. Im not sure what the cutoff is for what qualifies as a "main gun" as is limited to 6 on a hull, tho I can see arguments being made for somewhere in the 150-200mm range. Carth would have more on this.

[Carthaginian]

Ok, I have spent near my entire lunch on this debate. Until 1910, there can be no cruiser or larger ship that can fire more than 6 turret mounted guns into a broadside. Hexagonal layouts are OK as long as they don't violate this. Casemate guns are exempt.

[KWorld]

I've designed some 15000-ton ACs for 1900 and 1905.  There were a number of ACs that got up around 15000 tons normal, the US Tennessee-class might have been among the biggest, they're listed as having a standard displacement of 14,500 tons and a full load displacement of 15,712 tons.

[Carthaginian]

Also, Jef- the Corbet cannot be built prior to 1910. It is a dreadnought design, and can't be built prior to start.

Again, the Corbet class BB and the Invincible type BC cannot be built prior to start.
Sorry.

[Jefgte]

Ok , Cart.

Maximum armament for BBs is 3T2x12".


Jef

[Carthaginian]

For single-caliber designs... yes, of course, that doesn't include casemated secondaries.

[Jefgte]

Scrap the ships after 15yo is short,
Have a break in a category of ship is bad for operations.

I rework the Plan (again) to have a better turnover for the different categories of ships

Adjustements concern mainly LD dates.

Jef  ;)

[Carthaginian]

Scrap the ships after 15yo is short,

That's just a storyline feature for the 'starting fleets'... it was an 'in character' feature to ensure that no fleet on the planet had a larger fleet than any other. Basically, it was the game world hitting the 'reset' button on fleet strengths.

It will have no impact on how long ships are retained after the game starts. :)

[KWorld]

And it's not actually that far off reality during this period: steel and iron rust in saltwater, and reciprocating engines wear out.  Ships in the period were not, for the most part, long-lived vessels.

[Carthaginian]

And it's not actually that far off reality during this period: steel and iron rust in saltwater, and reciprocating engines wear out.  Ships in the period were not, for the most part, long-lived vessels.

"A ship of Iron will wear out three bottoms, where a ship of Wood will wear out three tops."

[Jefgte]

I prefer to have amixed program in all category of ships.

1895	PB1	850t	6
1895	GB1	2500t	4
1896	CL1	4300t	4
1896	TB1	500t	8
1897	BB1	12400t	2
1897	AC1	7900t	4
1898	GB1	2500t	4
1898	BB2	12400t	2
1899	CL2	4300	4
1899	TB1	500	8
1900	AC 2	7900t	4
1900	PB2	850t	6
1901	BB3	12400t	2
1901	AC2	7900t	4
1902	DD1	950t	8
1902	CL3	4800t	6
1903	PB2	850t	8
1903	AC3	10000t	2
1904	GB2	2500t	2
1904	BB4	18000t	2
1905	CL4	8000t	2
1905	DD2	1200	12
1906	AC4	12500t	2
1906	PB3	850t	8
1907	BB5	20000t	2
1907	GB3	2500t	2
1908	DD3	1200t	12
1908	CL5	8000t	2
1909	PB4	500t	8
1909	AC5	15000t	2

PB - 36
GB - 12
TB - 16
DD - 32
CL - 18
AC - 18
BB - 10
total 142

Jef

[Jefgte]

Here is AC1 class, 7900t, 4 ships of this class are in the Plan.
They carry 4T1x240 in losange position
AC2 class , 7900t also, 8 ships, carry the same armament of 4 guns but in 2T2 fore & aft
(Danton Turret).
Armor is 160mm on AC1 class & 200mm on AC2 class.
Speed & range identical.

Defender, Nova Francia AC1 laid down 1897

Displacement:
   6 577 t light; 6 940 t standard; 7 900 t normal; 8 668 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (379.00 ft / 374.00 ft) x 65.62 ft x (18.78 / 20.27 ft)
   (115.52 m / 114.00 m) x 20.00 m  x (5.72 / 6.18 m)

Armament:
      2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 485.00lbs / 219.99kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 50.0 cal guns - 485.00lbs / 219.99kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
      8 - 5.50" / 140 mm 55.0 cal guns - 89.79lbs / 40.73kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 12.99lbs / 5.89kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 52.0 cal guns - 3.37lbs / 1.53kg shells, 400 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2 776 lbs / 1 259 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 0.628 t each, 2.513 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.30" / 160 mm   242.77 ft / 74.00 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.77" / 45 mm   100.00 ft / 30.48 m   7.86 ft / 2.40 m
     31.23 ft / 9.52 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.77" / 45 mm   242.77 ft / 74.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.10" / 180 mm   3.95" / 100 mm      7.10" / 180 mm
   2nd:   7.10" / 180 mm   3.95" / 100 mm      7.10" / 180 mm
   3rd:   1.77" / 45 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.77" / 45 mm
   Forecastle: 0.99" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.99" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7.87" / 200 mm, Aft 6.30" / 160 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9 922 ihp / 7 402 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 5 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 728 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   418 - 544

Cost:
   £0.691 million / $2.766 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 729 tons, 9.2 %
      - Guns: 726 tons, 9.2 %
      - Weapons: 3 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 1 929 tons, 24.4 %
      - Belts: 846 tons, 10.7 %
      - Armament: 422 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 540 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Towers: 121 tons, 1.5 %
   Machinery: 1 627 tons, 20.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 172 tons, 27.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 323 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 1.5 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons
      - Above deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 111 lbs / 4 133 Kg = 21.6 x 9.5 " / 240 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.610
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.06 ft / 3.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 950 Square feet or 1 668 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 527 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.71
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Jef

[KWorld]

You've got 1902 guns in 1897 ships.  Also, are the 140mm's supposed to be quick-firing (ie, 1 piece shell and case)?  The historical 138.6mm/55 was separate-loading, so not quick-firing.

[Jefgte]

You right Kworld,
I use an original 1902 SS for a 1897 ship.
I can't use Danton guns but re SS with AC d'Entrecasteau guns
"Armement
2 × 240 mm (cal 40-mod.1893)
12 × 138 mm (cal 45-mod.1893)
12 × 47 mm (cal 40-mod.1885)
6 × 37 mm (cal23-mod.1884)
4 tubes lance-torpilles (450 mm
"
& the 138.5 (140)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_55-45_m1891.htm

Apparently, all 138.5 were with separate loading - rof 4 to 6 per mn


Jef