Spending Spree (NOT OFFICIAL!!!!)

[TexanCowboy]

Tejas fully endorses the destruction of California in an attempt to invade Mexico.

[snip]

I find it funny that you chose red. *hides Lenin*

[Tanthalas]

Tejas fully endorses the destruction of California in an attempt to invade Mexico.

Who is this California everyone keeps talking about... My Peace loving Nation is the Dominion of Deseret, and our small military is entierly for Defence from our agresive neighbors to the south.

I find it funny that you chose red. *hides Lenin*

Just 3 little words The Red Plague... *points to all the abortive comunist uprisings in N2/N3* I think Lennin was possibly the most hated single person in the Nverse (unless you were the Middle Kingdom then it was anyone from the NS)

[TexanCowboy]

See what my little character started there. :D

He was still at large with a Romanian cruiser at the end of the sim, BTW.

[Carthaginian]

I find it funny that you chose red. *hides Lenin*

In the spirit of the laissez faire economics which Acadie is so fond of... well, Lenin will probably not be popular in our neck of the woods.

[miketr]

My first pass at a spending spree with the current rules.  I ended up spending more on the navy in upkeep and spending terms than I intended to.  Still the results in terms, especially in terms of upkeep look fine.  3% peace time upkeep works fine and a war budget (doubling to 6%) would have no trouble fielding everything that is worth fielding.

Any comments or questions on the spending spree right now?  Please note my assumption is a GDP of N$3,333

Michael

Army Spending

10 1860 Corps N$200
2 1860 Brigades N$4
1 Engineer Brigade N$8
1 Siege Brigade N$2
2 Depot Brigades N$16
2 Constable Brigades N$4
26 1860 Citadels N$26

Sub Total N$270

Projected 1880 Army Budget

1860 Corps at Active N$9 per x 1 = N$9
1860 Corps at Conscript N$4 per x 5 = N$20
1860 Corps at Reserve N$1 per x 1 = N$1
1860 Corps at EQ Depot N$0 per x 3 = N$0
1860 Brigade at Active N$0.9 per x1 = N$0.9
1860 Brigade at Conscript N$0.4 per x1 = N$0.4
Engineer Brigade at Conscript N$1.6 per x1 = N$1.6
1860 Siege Brigade at Conscript N$0.1 per x1 = N$0.1
Depot Brigades at Reserve $N0.4 per x 2 = N$0.8
Constable Brigade at Active $N0.4 per x 1 = N$0.4
Constable Brigade at Conscript $N0.1 per x 1 = N$0.1
1860 Citadels at Active $N0.45 per x12 = N$5.4
1860 Citadels at Reserve $N0.05 per x24 N$1.2

Total Army Budget N$40.9

Naval Spending

500,000 tons of naval support      N$100  / N$10
120 m / 394' slipway x2          N$5.76 (2.88) / N$0 
95 m / 312' slipway x6         N$8.57 (1.43) / N$0
120 x 24 x 9 Dry Dock   x2      N$31.104 (15.552) / N$3.1104
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock   x10      N$86.64 (8.664) / N$8.664
120,000 tons of Warships 1860-69 (reserve status)(0.5 multiplier)   N$60 (120) / N$1.2
120,000 tons of Warships 1870-74 (active status)(0.75 multiplier)   N$90 (120) / N$6
120,000 tons of Warships 1875-79 (mobilized status)(1.0 multiplier)   N$120 (120) / N$12

Total Spending: $N502.0778 / 40.9744 (upkeep)

Byzantium Ports

Constantinople:   150,000 Tons Support Size

120 m / 394' Slipway
95 m / 312' Slipway
95 m / 312' Slipway
120 x 24 x 9 Dry Dock
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock

Valletta, Malta:   150,000 Tons Support Size

120 x 24 x 9 Dry Dock
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock

Alexandretta (İskenderun):   50,000 Tons Support Size

95 m / 312' Slipway
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock

Trapezounta (Trabzon/Trebizond):   50,000 Tons Support Size

120 m / 394' Slipway
95 m / 312' Slipway
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock

Corfu:      50,000 Tons Support Size

95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock


Souda Bay (Crete): 50,000 Tons Support Size

95 m / 312' Slipway
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock
95 x 19 x 8 Dry Dock   

[Walter]

120,000 tons of Warships 1875-79 (mobilized status)(1.0 multiplier)   N$120 (120) / N$12

From the rules: "Mobilized:  The ship is in all respects ready for immediate military operations, and spends considerable time at sea."
If the ship is from between 1875-1879, there's a good chance that it is still under construction so I seriously doubt that "mobilized status" could ever apply to ships that have not been completed yet as such a ship can never be ready for immediate military operations until it has been completed...

BTW, not sure if it has been brought up (could have missed it when I looked around) but how do we deal with 1875-1879 ships that are still under construction in 1880 during the spending spree?

[Korpen]

Well a first shot.
As it was told to me that in effect every base needs to be able to support the majority of the fleet, the base upkeep costs are murderous.
Thoughts? comments?



Yes, I will post it as a proper post when it is "for real" but atm it went faster to just make an image.

[Korpen]

Red dots are own bases, green squares potential hostile bases.

[snip]

Well, glad I have a small coastline that can be covered by 3-4 bases...

[Korpen]

Well, glad I have a small coastline that can be covered by 3-4 bases...

37 000km of coastline, not counting Greenland, Iceland, Svalbard or the Faroe Islands!
That reminds me, need a small base in Thorshavn as well...

[miketr]

120,000 tons of Warships 1875-79 (mobilized status)(1.0 multiplier)   N$120 (120) / N$12

From the rules: "Mobilized:  The ship is in all respects ready for immediate military operations, and spends considerable time at sea."
If the ship is from between 1875-1879, there's a good chance that it is still under construction so I seriously doubt that "mobilized status" could ever apply to ships that have not been completed yet as such a ship can never be ready for immediate military operations until it has been completed...

BTW, not sure if it has been brought up (could have missed it when I looked around) but how do we deal with 1875-1879 ships that are still under construction in 1880 during the spending spree?

Assumption is there are no such ships under construction.  Otherwise the book keeping gets annoying as you have pointed out.  They have finished and are in service at whatever level you want.

Michael

[miketr]

Well a first shot.
As it was told to me that in effect every base needs to be able to support the majority of the fleet, the base upkeep costs are murderous.
Thoughts? comments?

Yes, I will post it as a proper post when it is "for real" but atm it went faster to just make an image.

Reserve units are are 1 in reserve per X in active.  With base line tech you can have 1 in reserve per 3 in active / conscript status.  So you need at least 8 corps to have 2 in reserve.

As to number of bases if you want the level of redundancy and ability to react that you do then yes its going to cost an arm and a leg.  Whats worse you don't have enough dry docks

For regular maintenance, you need one drydock that can accommodate the largest ship based there, and an additional "large enough" drydock  for every 20 large (over 1,000t or over 80m/262') ship.

In effect every base needs at least 2 DD's, by a strict reading of the rules you can only base one ship at the ports that have only 1 DD and those ports you have without DD's can't have ships there for the long haul.  Instead ships will have to be rotating to other ports to receive needed DD time.  Since Guinness is back he can confirm if my reading of the rules is correct as he wrote that section up but that is my understanding of it.

The number and size of ports you have is...  excessive to put it mildly.  If that's what you want to do that is fine but I would cut down the number of bases and the size of the ones you do have.  Yes you forsee X threats at the same time the military you can afford is based upon budget and not needs.

Michael 

[Korpen]

As to number of bases if you want the level of redundancy and ability to react that you do then yes its going to cost an arm and a leg.  Whats worse you don't have enough dry docks

Not redundancy, simply the ability to move at all.

The number and size of ports you have is...  excessive to put it mildly.  If that's what you want to do that is fine but I would cut down the number of bases and the size of the ones you do have.  Yes you forsee X threats at the same time the military you can afford is based upon budget and not needs.

Thing is, I have already cut the number of bases almost in half compared to OTL.
But a more important question would be: What constitutes a naval base here?

Most of the bases I have included here (such as Hangö, Viborg, Kexholm, Mariehamn, Kristiansand, Tromsö, Trondheim and Fårösund) could in function be compared to Scapa Flow during ww1; fortified, protected anchorages capable of supporting fleet operations. But they are not peacetime bases or shipbuilding centres. So how would such places best be represented?
At the same time there are some cases of the opposite; Stockholm naval station has zero tactical use as a base, while it would be home base for much of the fleet during peace and a major shipyard the fact that it is over 50km to open water made it pretty useless operationally. What would be the best way to represent that?

It feels like the rules focus on the later strategic aspects of bases, which sort of screws people with very long coastlines to cover (using grounded glass and wasabi as lube) while further benefiting people who can concentrate assets in a few places.

[miketr]

As to number of bases if you want the level of redundancy and ability to react that you do then yes its going to cost an arm and a leg.  Whats worse you don't have enough dry docks

Not redundancy, simply the ability to move at all.

Yes you have a long coast line, a number of us do and how much of your coastline is also meaningless?  What are people going to do invade the coast along the Arctic Circle and butcher reindeer?

All jokes aside I still think you have too many ports and too large of ones.

The number and size of ports you have is...  excessive to put it mildly.  If that's what you want to do that is fine but I would cut down the number of bases and the size of the ones you do have.  Yes you forsee X threats at the same time the military you can afford is based upon budget and not needs.

Thing is, I have already cut the number of bases almost in half compared to OTL.
But a more important question would be: What constitutes a naval base here?

Most of the bases I have included here (such as Hangö, Viborg, Kexholm, Mariehamn, Kristiansand, Tromsö, Trondheim and Fårösund) could in function be compared to Scapa Flow during ww1; fortified, protected anchorages capable of supporting fleet operations. But they are not peacetime bases or shipbuilding centres. So how would such places best be represented?
At the same time there are some cases of the opposite; Stockholm naval station has zero tactical use as a base, while it would be home base for much of the fleet during peace and a major shipyard the fact that it is over 50km to open water made it pretty useless operationally. What would be the best way to represent that?

It feels like the rules focus on the later strategic aspects of bases, which sort of screws people with very long coastlines to cover (using grounded glass and wasabi as lube) while further benefiting people who can concentrate assets in a few places.

I see I forgot the smiley after the 'strict reading of the rules' line.  That would change what questions you ask here I think.  Also more detail in the answer, I was pressed for time and didn't explain more.  I am sorry, my bad.

OK Places like Scapa Flow, Kiautschou Bay (before the Germans moved a floating DD there) or Truk Lagoon are just anchorages.  They can refuel ships, rearm ships, provide housing and minor repairs and maintenance.  They are NOT building and or repair centers.  Such things are done at other bases and ships needing Dry Dock Access have to rotate.  For that you need enough DD's to cover your ships, number of ships / 20.  That is how I viewed the rule.  Guinness and I think P3D were more on that.  Economics and Army were more my things to be honest.

So if you want a fleet anchorage some place without Dry Docks you can do that.

Why do you feel the need to have so many bases and with so much support?  Seriously I don't see the need for a million tons of support capacity Korpen.  I don't see the need to achieve that type of concentration at will along your ENTIRE coast line.

I hope this reply was more helpful than my last and if you have other questions, comments or SUGGESTIONS then feel free.

Michael