Mexican Cruiser

[Desertfox]

Pacific cruiser, based on the HMS Iris. Armor and TB simulate the construction of the ships, they had extensive subdivisions.



ARM Hermosillo, Mexico Cruiser laid down 1877

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,113 t standard; 3,857 t normal; 4,452 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   300.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   91.44 m / 91.44 m x 13.72 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 50.31lbs / 22.82kg shells, 1877 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 503 lbs / 228 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      0.50" / 13 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,848 ihp / 5,108 Kw = 17.70 kts
   Range 5,400nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,339 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   244 - 318

Cost:
   £0.365 million / $1.459 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 63 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 111 tons, 2.9 %
      - Belts: 56 tons, 1.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 56 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,478 tons, 38.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,208 tons, 31.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 857 tons, 22.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,892 lbs / 858 Kg = 37.6 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.78
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 9.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.82

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.40 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 252.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,995 Square feet or 836 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 396 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Desertfox]

And a bigger battleline version.


ARM California, Mexico Cruiser laid down 1875
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,295 t standard; 5,186 t normal; 5,898 t full loaigger a bd

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   300.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   91.44 m / 91.44 m x 15.24 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      20 - 7.00" / 178 mm guns in single mounts, 132.91lbs / 60.29kg shells, 1875 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2,658 lbs / 1,206 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,537 ihp / 3,385 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 5,050nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,603 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   305 - 397

Cost:
   £0.561 million / $2.243 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 332 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 777 tons, 15.0 %
      - Belts: 777 tons, 15.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,012 tons, 19.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,739 tons, 33.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,186 tons, 22.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,271 lbs / 1,484 Kg = 24.6 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.61
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 10.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.94

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.40 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,468 Square feet or 973 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 104 lbs/sq ft or 509 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.65
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[TexanCowboy]

It looks like you built an armoured frigate in 1875. Make that into a central battery ship and you should be better off. (broadside to casemate)

[Desertfox]

That was the intention, and really there's not much difference between broadside and casemate.

[TexanCowboy]

Well, except it would take 10 plasma shots to slag all of the casemates on one side, and 1 plasma shot to slag the broadside guns on one side, yes.

[Carthaginian]

Survivability is low... lower by 30% than a similar ship I have in my plans.
15 knots... that's a speed demon that you have made, but why?
Twenty 7" guns without any protection... do you think that the guns will survive long?

A good overall design, but it needs tweaking for survivability.

[TexanCowboy]

Ok, the SS survivability stats are prenium BS; there's no point comparing that, at least. Foxy's extensive subdivision lowers it; I don't think that should be considered.

[Carthaginian]

Ok, the SS survivability stats are prenium BS; there's no point comparing that, at least. Foxy's extensive subdivision lowers it; I don't think that should be considered.

Uhm... the SS survivability is GOLD for the sim, Tex. It's how we work things here... if it is BS, then everyone must walk through the same BS to get where we are going.

Especially if that BS takes into account how easy it is to hit vital components in the ship... which DF's fast ships have a large amount of.

[Desertfox]

Well, except it would take 10 plasma shots to slag all of the casemates on one side, and 1 plasma shot to slag the broadside guns on one side, yes

Changing it in SS2 really does nothing.

Survivability is low... lower by 30% than a similar ship I have in my plans.

Which one? The first one is a near copy of a historical ship.

15 knots... that's a speed demon that you have made, but why?

Very funny. My cruiser is too fast, but Tan's 17 knot battleship is just right?

Twenty 7" guns without any protection... do you think that the guns will survive long?

Isn't that what the armored belt covers in a broadside ship?

[Tanthalas]

I think he was pointing out the fact that you continued to complain even after I reduced speed to sub 15 knots because ZOMG it had 6 guns, not that im complaining (realy im not) the slower I make her the cheaper and more likley to be built she gets.  I felt 9100 tons was a bit heavy but now im down to 8100 im actualy thinking about building the girl.

[Carthaginian]

Well, except it would take 10 plasma shots to slag all of the casemates on one side, and 1 plasma shot to slag the broadside guns on one side, yes

Changing it in SS2 really does nothing.

Pretty much bang on for TC- the open broadside mounts are easily taken out by raking fire.
Protected casemates would be harder to kill- or even broadside mounts within the hull and behind some armor!

Survivability is low... lower by 30% than a similar ship I have in my plans.

Which one? The first one is a near copy of a historical ship.

Sorry, the second one... should have been clearer.

15 knots... that's a speed demon that you have made, but why?

Very funny. My cruiser is too fast, but Tan's 17 knot battleship is just right?

That is a very fast ship FOR THE DISPLACEMENT.
I have a similar ship that has only about a 13.5 knot top speed.
This also ties into the survivability issue I had- the more 'important stuff' in the hull, the less survivable that the ship is- especially one that is virtually unarmored. :( Your ship is light and fast with little armor- and thus it goes *boom* far easier than even a faster ship which is better protected.

Twenty 7" guns without any protection... do you think that the guns will survive long?

Isn't that what the armored belt covers in a broadside ship?

Uhm... NO!
Your mounts are deck-level mounts... and your (main) belt is a waterline belt. Where you have the guns at now, they would have to have individual shields on the deck; you could also drop them a deck and add an upper belt, but it would have to be a UPPER BELT in order to protect the guns.
Unless you do one of the two, the guns are simply in the open, like the weather deck guns of any sailing ship.

[Desertfox]

Like this?


ARM California, Mexico Cruiser laid down 1875
Armoured Corvette (Broadside ironclad)

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,295 t standard; 5,186 t normal; 5,898 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   300.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   91.44 m / 91.44 m x 15.24 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      20 - 7.00" / 178 mm guns in single mounts, 132.91lbs / 60.29kg shells, 1875 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in broadside mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2,658 lbs / 1,206 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,537 ihp / 3,385 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 5,050nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,603 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   305 - 397

Cost:
   £0.561 million / $2.243 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 332 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 738 tons, 14.2 %
      - Belts: 544 tons, 10.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 194 tons, 3.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,012 tons, 19.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,778 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,186 tons, 22.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,109 lbs / 1,410 Kg = 23.4 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.90

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.40 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,468 Square feet or 973 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 520 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.71
      - Overall: 1.02
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


***

Or this?


ARM California, Mexico Cruiser laid down 1875

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,295 t standard; 5,186 t normal; 5,898 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   300.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   91.44 m / 91.44 m x 15.24 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      20 - 7.00" / 178 mm guns in single mounts, 132.91lbs / 60.29kg shells, 1875 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2,658 lbs / 1,206 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,537 ihp / 3,385 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 5,050nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,603 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   305 - 397

Cost:
   £0.561 million / $2.243 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 332 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 784 tons, 15.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 591 tons, 11.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 194 tons, 3.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,012 tons, 19.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,801 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,186 tons, 22.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,613 lbs / 1,639 Kg = 27.2 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.87
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 9.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.40 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,468 Square feet or 973 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 527 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Carthaginian]

Well, wither of the bottom two designs leave the waterline unarmored, so the ship is basically a sitting duck to enemy gunfire! ;) Also, the top one of the new designs STILL has the guns on the 'weather deck'- though there is an upper belt, the guns must be LOWERED to be behind it.

You need both a waterline belt AND an upper belt to have the ship protected.
If you don't, you're leaving vital things unarmored.

[Walter]

For simplicity, I used quite a tall main belt to sim the protection for both the waterline and the broadside guns on a few of my designs.

[Carthaginian]

For simplicity, I used quite a tall main belt to sim the protection for both the waterline and the broadside guns on a few of my designs.

This is kinda a 'sploit' because an upper belt often causes stability problems.
Using an upper belt would be the only way to sim the weight where the weight should be... SS (I think) kind of assumes that the main belt is split half above and half below the waterline. This is why the upper belt plays with stability more than the lower one.