Early Ships Attempt - Island Nation

[Logi]

So I'll first try out a battleship. Requirements are, fast for it's time (lots of sea to cover), low bunkerage (lots of nearby fueling stations), and adequate armament.

Standard distance is the distance from Miami to Port-au-Prince (~890 nm). Extended range is the distance from Miami to Port-of-Spain (~1,485 nm).

Since operation is mostly within the Gulf of Mexico, high seakeeping is not needed.

1870 variant:

Fast Patroller,  Frigate laid down 1870

Displacement:
   7,379 t light; 7,716 t standard; 8,000 t normal; 8,227 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   360.00 ft / 360.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   109.73 m / 109.73 m x 18.29 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x2 guns), 350.00lbs / 158.76kg shells, 1870 Model
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 75.60lbs / 34.29kg shells, 1870 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 2.80lbs / 1.27kg shells, 1870 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2,022 lbs / 917 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   262.00 ft / 79.86 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm     98.00 ft / 29.87 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,723 ihp / 6,507 Kw = 16.50 kts
   Range 890nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 511 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   422 - 549

Cost:
   £0.770 million / $3.079 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 253 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 2,152 tons, 26.9 %
      - Belts: 1,237 tons, 15.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 532 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 306 tons, 3.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 78 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,138 tons, 26.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,828 tons, 35.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 621 tons, 7.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 8 tons, 0.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,883 lbs / 1,762 Kg = 11.1 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.648
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      9.50 ft / 2.90 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Mid (50 %):      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 59.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,519 Square feet or 1,535 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 636 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[snip]

I think you are underselling the range bit, I would give it some more just to give it station time in the event it needs to do something other then sail in the state line between the ports.

[TexanCowboy]

Ah hell na. 16.5 knots isn't, just isn't going to be possible with that technology and a lack of sails, and I see nothing set around for them.

I think 14 knots is a maximum for the time period without massive engineering problems.

[Darman]

how would you sim sails?  The Alexandria got 15kn but she also had sails.  The Warrior supposedly got 17kn with steam and sail combined. 

[TexanCowboy]

Add a lot of misc. weight. I think around 200 tons, maybe.

Maybe, BUT they also didn't have turrets. I'm not even sure if those guns will be able to fire with that freeboard, and moniter turrets, in any sort of seaway at speed.

[snip]

between 10-15% of normal displacement in misc weight is what I have been told

[Korpen]

I agree that 16 knots seems excessive for the period; but other then that I must say my knowledge about 1870 equipment is a bit too foggy to give much better feedback on details.
But one thing to keep in mind is that breechloaders at that time was not truly gas-tight the first guns with De Bange breech obturator system entered  service around 1880), a so a muzzleloader would get more power from the same powdercharge.

[Logi]

Patroller,  Frigate laid down 1870

Displacement:
   8,013 t light; 8,372 t standard; 9,000 t normal; 9,502 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   380.00 ft / 380.00 ft x 65.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   115.82 m / 115.82 m x 19.81 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x2 guns), 350.00lbs / 158.76kg shells, 1870 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 75.60lbs / 34.29kg shells, 1870 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 2.80lbs / 1.27kg shells, 1870 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2,173 lbs / 986 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   205.00 ft / 62.48 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   175.00 ft / 53.34 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 83 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,359 ihp / 4,744 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,130 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   461 - 600

Cost:
   £0.727 million / $2.907 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 272 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 2,711 tons, 30.1 %
      - Belts: 1,334 tons, 14.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 628 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 656 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 93 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,559 tons, 17.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,251 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 987 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 220 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,453 lbs / 2,927 Kg = 18.4 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.85 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (50 %):      8.50 ft / 2.59 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.50 ft / 2.59 m
      - Average freeboard:   8.55 ft / 2.61 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 62.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,725 Square feet or 1,647 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 674 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.18
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[Carthaginian]

Hmmm... would like to see a drawing of her.
Ship sounds southing like the C.S.S. Mississippi/H.M.S. Wyvern. If this is the case, I'd have a built-up fo'c'sle and stern to allow for some seagoing ability. She'd still be wet as all hell along her deck, but some folding bulwarks would at least keep the men from washing overboard.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h52000/h52526.jpg

[Carthaginian]

Snip, where did you get the figures for weight of a sailing rig?

If 15% of my 6,9000 ton (std) ship is used up for sails, you do realize that means 1035 tons is devoted to sails alone. This is only about 400t less than the ARMOR on that ship... and she has a full-length belt, 325' of 8" armor- to say nothing about the 6" citidel and barbette armor!

Somehow, that just doesn't compute for me.

[snip]

It was given to me by Brockpaine from wesworld

[Carthaginian]

That just seams insanely heavy- I've always figured 2% or so.

[TexanCowboy]

That also seems heavy to me.

[Logi]

Larger guns, slower cruise speed (as per the cruise speed / engine wear discussions).

Patroller,  Frigate laid down 1870

Displacement:
   8,979 t light; 9,438 t standard; 10,000 t normal; 10,450 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   400.00 ft / 400.00 ft x 65.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   121.92 m / 121.92 m x 19.81 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 604.80lbs / 274.33kg shells, 1870 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 75.60lbs / 34.29kg shells, 1870 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 2.80lbs / 1.27kg shells, 1870 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,192 lbs / 1,448 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   225.00 ft / 68.58 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   175.00 ft / 53.34 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,654 ihp / 4,964 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 2,679nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,012 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   499 - 650

Cost:
   £0.878 million / $3.511 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 399 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 2,863 tons, 28.6 %
      - Belts: 1,318 tons, 13.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 767 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 678 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 100 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,631 tons, 16.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,886 tons, 38.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,021 tons, 10.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,565 lbs / 2,978 Kg = 10.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.561
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.16 ft / 2.79 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 63.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,332 Square feet or 1,703 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 751 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped