Middle Kingdom Design Studies for 1920

[snip]

well Im not a big fan of them on Capital units. I could see how they would work, but once again, it has been a while sense there were any battleships constructed in the MK. Design philosophy can change. Smaller stuff I can work with. Sam was asking about all that weight on the Majestic, torp reloads anyone?

[maddox]

The closest the MK ever constructed to BB are the latest series of CCBB's or the Longyu cruisers.

[snip]

what do you think about the Remembrance? Seem like a logical first BB build to you?

[maddox]

If you want a small, but real dreadnaught, this is an option.

[Blooded]

Oh... she is soooo cute!  ;D



Actually always liked those little guys.

[snip]

The Remembrance is similar to that, just with the AX-BY layout instead of A-(PQ)-Y and its a bit faster. I think it is a logical fist go, if a semi blue-water design is considered.

[snip]

A design for a Destroyer Leader and Scout Cruiser. Based on the Spähkreuzer class large destroyers from the Z Plan. (In case its not obvious, Im using that for ideas. Seems like a good place to start with a naval buildup) Im having some issues with the seakeaping. Sugestions???

Tànzhàod?ng (Searchlight), Chinese Destroyer Leader/Scout Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   3,919 t light; 4,057 t standard; 5,171 t normal; 6,061 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   501.97 ft / 492.13 ft x 42.65 ft x 14.76 ft (normal load)
   153.00 m / 150.00 m x 13.00 m  x 4.50 m

Armament:
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (3x2 guns), 46.30lbs / 21.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      6 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 301 lbs / 136 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   383.86 ft / 117.00 m   8.14 ft / 2.48 m
   Ends:   0.59" / 15 mm     82.02 ft / 25.00 m   8.14 ft / 2.48 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   0.98" / 25 mm   309.22 ft / 94.25 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.59" / 15 mm      1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 41,453 shp / 30,924 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 17.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,004 tons

Complement:
   304 - 396

Cost:
   £0.919 million / $3.678 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 42 tons, 0.8 %
   Armour: 255 tons, 4.9 %
      - Belts: 239 tons, 4.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,544 tons, 29.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,927 tons, 37.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,251 tons, 24.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,370 lbs / 2,436 Kg = 101.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 11.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.86

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.584
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.54 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.26 ft / 0.69 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Stern:      12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.37 ft / 3.77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,123 Square feet or 1,405 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 406 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.27
      - Longitudinal: 0.93
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Sachmle]

You've got a mess of cross-sectional strength left over. You could use it to raise freeboard some. 12' isn't all that high, even for a small cruiser.

[snip]

So freeboard is to low??? What about the Majestic? her freeboard is only 4.25m. Could I raise that as well?

[TexanCowboy]

When the longitudal strength is lower than the composite, raise it to gain strength.

[snip]

ah so that is the indicator for "correct" freebord hight?

[Jefgte]

150m - 29kts - 4000t...

You could certainly have "good seaboat..."
I note that the armament is light -
3M2x150 or 4M2x120 is certainly possible.


Jef

[snip]

Better?

Tànzhàod?ng (Searchlight), Chinese Destroyer Leader/Scout Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   3,811 t light; 3,954 t standard; 5,216 t normal; 6,225 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   501.98 ft / 492.13 ft x 45.93 ft x 14.76 ft (normal load)
   153.00 m / 150.00 m x 14.00 m  x 4.50 m

Armament:
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (3x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      6 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 339 lbs / 154 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   383.86 ft / 117.00 m   8.14 ft / 2.48 m
   Ends:   0.59" / 15 mm     82.02 ft / 25.00 m   8.14 ft / 2.48 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   0.98" / 25 mm   309.22 ft / 94.25 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   0.59" / 15 mm      1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 41,481 shp / 30,945 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 17.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,271 tons

Complement:
   306 - 398

Cost:
   £0.911 million / $3.643 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 42 tons, 0.8 %
   Armour: 256 tons, 4.9 %
      - Belts: 240 tons, 4.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,545 tons, 29.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,817 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,405 tons, 26.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,997 lbs / 2,720 Kg = 113.7 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 11.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.547
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.80 ft / 0.55 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Stern:      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,731 Square feet or 1,461 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 367 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.06
      - Longitudinal: 0.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[snip]

Majestic with much better seakeeping due to a .25m rise in freeboard.

Xióngw?i (Majestic) Class, Middle Kingdom Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,313 t standard; 8,550 t normal; 10,340 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554.47 ft / 541.34 ft x 55.77 ft x 18.04 ft (normal load)
   169.00 m / 165.00 m x 17.00 m  x 5.50 m

Armament:
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 14.33lbs / 6.50kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 14.33lbs / 6.50kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 960 lbs / 435 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   295.28 ft / 90.00 m   8.96 ft / 2.73 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.12" / 130 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 47,730 shp / 35,606 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 11,000nm at 17.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,027 tons (10% coal)

Complement:
   443 - 577

Cost:
   £1.332 million / $5.329 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 122 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 941 tons, 11.0 %
      - Belts: 448 tons, 5.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 143 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 307 tons, 3.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,795 tons, 21.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,843 tons, 33.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,550 tons, 29.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,516 lbs / 5,224 Kg = 111.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.549
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.18 ft / 0.97 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.22 ft / 5.25 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.96 ft / 4.56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,057 Square feet or 1,956 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 147 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 90 lbs/sq ft or 441 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.04
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TexanCowboy]

Raise the longitudal strength so that it is higher than the composite strength. That should help you out a heck if a lot.