Egyptian Naval Research and Development

Started by Darman, July 27, 2010, 04:21:07 PM

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ctwaterman

6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
     [b]Main guns limited to end-on fire[/b]


The above from your original posted Cruiser... the part in bold is what happens when you have to much recoil.... or Recoil over 1.0....   

Your ship cannot fire a broadside without the ship rolling over  :-[
Dont worry it hapens.

Now as to Main Guns it is possible that you can either order the guns or the Engines directly from France or Italy both of which you have close buisness arrangements with.   
Just Browsing nothing to See Move Along

Jefgte

13.7m beam is not enough for T2x8"...

Increase beam, & recoil decrease automaticaly.



Jef ;)
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

Darman

Quote from: Sachmle on November 09, 2010, 06:01:59 PM
Your belt doesn't cover your vitals, you have no deck armor, you 12" mounts are open (no "other" armor, just Face and barbette), you're unsteady, unstable, and have excess overall strength to boot...

My biggest problem with ship design is the armor belt and how long/high the belt needs to be to cover all vital areas.  Any recommendations? 

Sachmle

High is debatable, how long however, SS tells you. On the armor page in the top right corner it says "Minimum main belt length to cover machinery and magazines = ??". Just make sure you're at least that long. On the most recent ship, it requires 425.65ft of belt length.
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

maddox

To lengthen the belt, you should decrease forecastle and/or quarterdeck length.  Manualy increasing the belt length gives other issues.

Darman

QuoteAl Hassan, Egypt Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   9,143 t light; 9,497 t standard; 10,275 t normal; 10,898 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   525.00 ft / 525.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   160.02 m / 160.02 m x 15.24 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,728 lbs / 784 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   367.56 ft / 112.03 m   8.49 ft / 2.59 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   150.00 ft / 45.72 m   8.49 ft / 2.59 m
     7.44 ft / 2.27 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 74,718 shp / 55,740 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,401 tons

Complement:
   509 - 663

Cost:
   £2.107 million / $8.426 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 216 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 2,307 tons, 22.5 %
      - Belts: 975 tons, 9.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 169 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,152 tons, 11.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 10 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 2,784 tons, 27.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,521 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,132 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 315 tons, 3.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,671 lbs / 4,386 Kg = 37.8 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.685
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.50 ft / 5.33 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.25 ft / 5.87 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,759 Square feet or 1,929 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 482 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.05
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 1.10
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

15 tons damage control
25 tons long-range wireless
90 tons living quarters (45 man marine detachment)
100 tons undefined (future fire control)
30 tons landing craft (5 2-ton motor launches-6 passengers each)
30 tons mines and minelaying equipment (~30 mines)
25 tons undefined (extra cargo?)

mentat


well protected design - built to last

but I think the Deck armour is more than needed - 2" might be quite enough

maybe with a few more tweaks - could manage 8 x 8" main armament??

  for FC - trying to remember - but i think more is required

maddox

Correct Mentat. The Al Hassan is in effect a small armored cruiser. So, it needs the 250 ton Fire control setup.

I tried to squeeze on the 2 other 8" guns, and it can be done, but only at the expense of end and upper armor.
Also, the reasonable draught went and was increased to 8 meters normal.

QuoteAl Houssein, Egypt Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   9.000 t light; 9.389 t standard; 11.212 t normal; 12.670 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554,46 ft / 551,18 ft x 52,49 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   169,00 m / 168,00 m x 16,00 m  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 8,00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256,00lbs / 116,12kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm guns in single mounts, 0,06lbs / 0,03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2.240 lbs / 1.016 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   374,80 ft / 114,24 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 105% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   3,00" / 76 mm      4,00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5,00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 72.199 shp / 53.860 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.281 tons

Complement:
   544 - 708

Cost:
   £2,191 million / $8,763 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 280 tons, 2,5%
   Armour: 1.966 tons, 17,5%
      - Belts: 741 tons, 6,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 446 tons, 4,0%
      - Armour Deck: 724 tons, 6,5%
      - Conning Tower: 54 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 2.690 tons, 24,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.764 tons, 33,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.212 tons, 19,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10.990 lbs / 4.985 Kg = 42,9 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
   Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 15,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,92
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,517
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Quarterdeck (12%):   18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Stern:      18,60 ft / 5,67 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,08 ft / 5,82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127,5%
   Waterplane Area: 19.576 Square feet or 1.819 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 502 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,79
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

250 ton FC
20 ton marine quarters (10 marines)
25 ton Long Range wireless
5 ton undefined.

Sachmle

I PM'd a version of this to Darman earlier, but since Mario posted his shot I'll take mine.

Al Hassan, Egypt Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   9,650 t light; 10,188 t standard; 10,997 t normal; 11,644 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   556.73 ft / 550.00 ft x 64.00 ft x 20.85 ft (normal load)
   169.69 m / 167.64 m x 19.51 m  x 6.36 m

Armament:
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 2,240 lbs / 1,016 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   406.00 ft / 123.75 m   11.75 ft / 3.58 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.50" / 64 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.75" / 44 mm, Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80,000 shp / 59,680 Kw = 30.63 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,456 tons

Complement:
   536 - 698

Cost:
   £2.341 million / $9.363 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 280 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 1,870 tons, 17.0 %
      - Belts: 789 tons, 7.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 294 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 777 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 2,981 tons, 27.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,054 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,347 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 465 tons, 4.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,670 lbs / 4,386 Kg = 37.8 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.524
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,986 Square feet or 2,228 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 528 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.51
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

250 tons undefined (future fire control)
90 tons living quarters (45 man marine detachment)
30 tons landing craft (5 2-ton motor launches-6 passengers each)
30 tons mines and minelaying equipment (~30 mines)
25 tons long-range wireless
25 tons undefined (extra cargo?)
15 tons damage control equipment
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Darman

Thank you both for taking time to re-sim this ship, I appreciate it and both designs look good to me. 

Now I need to figure out which design Egypt needs more.  I'd originally set out to just create a cruiser that could be stationed outside the Mediterranean (and considering people thought I was trying to make a coast defense ship shows I didn't do too good a job originally).  Probably stationed at Diego Garcia, which is roughly 3,000nm from Egypt (and whose facilities are currently being upgraded).  Egypt needs a viable raider as well as convoy escort.  I also had originally planned for 250 ton fire control (when Egypt has the proper technology).  For some reason I figured it was downgraded to 100 ton FC and went and distributed 150 tons miscellaneous to various purposes, specifically mines and marines.  Why?  Because at that point in designing the ship I saw the empty tonnage as representing an opportunity to place a platoon of marine commandos and the boats (motor launches) on the cruisers so that on distant stations the ships have some sort of power projection on the ground immediately available to them.  A general purpose cruiser, as I saw it.  Again, the presence of mines and minelaying equipment is to drop a minefield into enemy waters right outside a port as soon as hostilities commence.  Although in an age of aircraft that could be rather dangerous I suppose.

Sachmle

Well, Mario's has a little better protection on the guns, more range at a higher speed, and is lighter. Mine has all your goodies, plus the 250t for AC fire control. Basically you get to choose between 9000t and range vs 9650t and all your goodies. Mario may very well be able to fit your goodies in without dropping the range and still be under the weight of mine, I have no idea.
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Darman

I'm rethinking the whole minefield-laying capabilities thing.  It would expose the cruiser too much for rather little gain.  30 mines might lay a thin belt across a narrow channel and it might surprise the first couple ships out of the harbor but its probably not worth risking a ship that could sit off-shore and wait for the merchantmen and interdict them that way.  That would free up 30 tons... I could get rid of the excess cargo space as well as some of the small boats for covert insertion (not that motor launches are covert...). 

I am wondering if 9000nm range is overkill for a raider based out of Diego Garcia. 

Sachmle

Cut down on some stuff. You actually had too much weight set aside for you boats since the rules only call for 2t per 1t of boat, and since you only had boat capacity for 30 men I cut your Marine detachment down to 30 men. Cut out the mines and "extra storage" and cut speed back to basically 30kts (30.01 to get an even SHP number). Cut the weight down and put the extra saved into some more armor on the guns and CT.

Al Hassan, Egypt Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   9,415 t light; 9,948 t standard; 10,745 t normal; 11,383 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   556.73 ft / 550.00 ft x 64.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
   169.69 m / 167.64 m x 19.51 m  x 6.40 m

Armament:
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 2,240 lbs / 1,016 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   380.30 ft / 115.92 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.75" / 44 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 72,000 shp / 53,712 Kw = 30.01 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,435 tons

Complement:
   526 - 685

Cost:
   £2.223 million / $8.890 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 280 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 1,980 tons, 18.4 %
      - Belts: 762 tons, 7.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 410 tons, 3.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 765 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,683 tons, 25.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,102 tons, 38.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,330 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 370 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,878 lbs / 4,934 Kg = 42.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,641 Square feet or 2,196 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 539 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

250 tons undefined (future fire control)
60 tons living quarters (30 man marine detachment)
20 tons landing craft (5 2-ton motor launches-6 passengers each)
25 tons long-range wireless
15 tons damage control equipment
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Jefgte

"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

Darman

#89
I was reading something recently and I saw that the fleet involved (fictional fleet) had built torpedo boats and gunboats, in addition to destroyers.  Pretty much a return to the ship designs before destroyers.  They are supposed to be cheap units a commander can throw away.  For local support of battle fleet.  Roughly the equivalent of the gunboat concept of the US Navy prior to the war of 1812.  Not sure how small "expendable" is though.  I'd like to make a gunboat version with heavier armament.  This is the torpedo boat version.  

Quote
Damietta, Egypt Torpedo Boat laid down 1920 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   658 t light; 674 t standard; 740 t normal; 793 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   247.96 ft / 246.06 ft x 26.25 ft x 8.20 ft (normal load)
   75.58 m / 75.00 m x 8.00 m  x 2.50 m

Armament:
     2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12 lbs / 5 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 17,302 shp / 12,907 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 120 tons

Complement:
   70 - 92

Cost:
   £0.188 million / $0.753 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 396 tons, 53.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 231 tons, 31.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 82 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     256 lbs / 116 Kg = 45.2 x 2.2 " / 57 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.489
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.40 ft / 4.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,260 Square feet or 396 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 52 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 120 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.51
      - Longitudinal: 3.60
      - Overall: 0.62
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

25 ton DD/TB fire control
4 tons 18inch torpedoes (2 twin launchers)

And here is the gunboat.  Pretty much the same hull minus the torpedoes with bigger guns. 
QuoteDamietta, Egypt Gunboat laid down 1920 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   665 t light; 684 t standard; 740 t normal; 785 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   247.96 ft / 246.06 ft x 26.25 ft x 8.20 ft (normal load)
   75.58 m / 75.00 m x 8.00 m  x 2.50 m

Armament:
      1 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      4 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      1 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft
   Weight of broadside 42 lbs / 19 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:

   - Conning tower: 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18,651 shp / 13,913 Kw = 29.50 kts
   Range 1,250nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 101 tons

Complement:
   70 - 92

Cost:
   £0.196 million / $0.785 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 0.7 %
   Armour: 1 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 395 tons, 53.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 239 tons, 32.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 75 tons, 10.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     248 lbs / 113 Kg = 7.0 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.489
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.40 ft / 4.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,260 Square feet or 396 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 48 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 125 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.51
      - Longitudinal: 3.70
      - Overall: 0.63
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

25 ton DD/TB fire control