Egyptian Naval Research and Development

[Darman]

Might want to check the machinery...

Machinery:
   No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
   No drive to shaft, 2 shafts, 41,620 shp / 31,049 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 30.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,318 tons

Also, DP guns have yet to make an appearance. Other than that, why are the 3 inch guns even there if you have a main battery of 4 inch.

I'll fix the 3"/DP although the lack of fuel confuses me a bit... I thought that engine type and range had been the first things I'd implemented. 

[snip]

no drive to shaft ether. I dont get the no fuel thing to.

[Darman]

I should have fixed it all.  She is intended to be a fast minelayer/minesweeper. 

Abigail, Egypt Mine Warfare Vessel laid down 1921 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   2,827 t light; 2,910 t standard; 3,503 t normal; 3,977 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   422.06 ft / 418.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
   128.64 m / 127.41 m x 12.19 m  x 3.66 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 144 lbs / 65 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 0.0" / 0 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 31,261 shp / 23,321 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 28.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,067 tons

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £0.735 million / $2.938 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 13 tons, 0.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,246 tons, 35.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,245 tons, 35.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 676 tons, 19.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 304 tons, 8.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,947 lbs / 1,337 Kg = 92.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.611
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Stern:      14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.39 ft / 5.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,355 Square feet or 1,148 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 284 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.78
      - Overall: 1.02
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

150t= 150 mines
50t= minesweeping gear
100t= 50 passenger/cargo compartment
4t= 18in torpedoes

[eltf177]

   2 - 0.0" / 0 mm above water torpedoes

Think you missed something...

[Darman]

   2 - 0.0" / 0 mm above water torpedoes

Think you missed something...

That did look odd but my roommate was breathing down my neck waiting for me to finish it so we could head out. 

Abigail, Egypt Mine Warfare Vessel laid down 1921 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   2,827 t light; 2,910 t standard; 3,503 t normal; 3,977 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   422.06 ft / 418.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
   128.64 m / 127.41 m x 12.19 m  x 3.66 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 144 lbs / 65 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 31,261 shp / 23,321 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 28.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,067 tons

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £0.735 million / $2.938 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 13 tons, 0.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,246 tons, 35.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,245 tons, 35.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 676 tons, 19.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 304 tons, 8.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,947 lbs / 1,337 Kg = 92.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.611
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Stern:      14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.39 ft / 5.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,355 Square feet or 1,148 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 58 lbs/sq ft or 284 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.78
      - Overall: 1.02
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

150t= 150 mines
50t= minesweeping gear
100t= 50 passenger/cargo compartment
4t= 18in torpedoes

[Darman]

My attempt at a cruiser design.  It should be within Egypt's capabilities to produce domestically (except the 12in main guns). 

Al Hassan, Egypt Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,893 t light; 8,551 t standard; 8,837 t normal; 9,065 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   525.00 ft / 525.00 ft x 43.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   160.02 m / 160.02 m x 13.11 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
      6 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.19lbs / 37.73kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 5,683 lbs / 2,578 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   209.98 ft / 64.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 43,312 shp / 32,311 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 514 tons

Complement:
   455 - 592

Cost:
   £2.597 million / $10.390 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 710 tons, 8.0 %
   Armour: 1,396 tons, 15.8 %
      - Belts: 1,178 tons, 13.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 209 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,614 tons, 18.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,858 tons, 43.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 943 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 315 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,592 lbs / 2,536 Kg = 6.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 43 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 3.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.685
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   19.50 ft / 5.94 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Stern:      16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.09 ft / 5.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,853 Square feet or 1,659 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 83 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 562 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

15 tons damage control
25 tons long-range wireless
25 tons living quarters (12 man marine detachment)
250 tons undefined (hopefully fire control)

Comments?

[maddox]

France has quite a few 189X 305mm L35 in storage. Waiting to be recast.

[Darman]

France has quite a few 189X 305mm L35 in storage. Waiting to be recast.

Sounds good to me.  I'm waiting for Egypt's naval propulsion tech to catch up with my design though.  I give it til 1922 (I think - don't have ready access to my sim reports). 

[Sachmle]

Your belt doesn't cover your vitals, you have no deck armor, you 12" mounts are open (no "other" armor, just Face and barbette), you're unsteady, unstable, and have excess overall strength to boot. 12" guns do not belong on < 8,000t ships, unless they're monitors.

[snip]

second that. I would go with a 140mm main battery if no heavier guns are available. One reason why I went with a 150mm main battery for the Majestic. France only uses them on everything under the sun so getting help there might be easy

[TexanCowboy]

Does anyone else notice the very high BC, the 12.2:1 L:B, and the 3.50 recoil effect?  :o

[Sachmle]

The BC's not THAT high.... 0.685 isn't unreasonable for a CDS type ship. I think he's trying to crap a gallon of stuff into a quart jar. Or in simpler terms, he's trying to win football games with UT's offensive offense.  :P GO GREEN!!!

[mentat]

  For all the reasons mentioned - it's not a very practical proposition currently

Try - increasing beam, reducing freeboard slightly, reduce upper armour and increase bunkerage (for stability as well as range)

  - even then 12" is a big ask - might be best to reduce - or reduce speed to normal CDS type - 18-22 knots

Lots of options .....

[TexanCowboy]

The BC's not THAT high.... 0.685 isn't unreasonable for a CDS type ship. I think he's trying to crap a gallon of stuff into a quart jar. Or in simpler terms, he's trying to win football games with UT's offensive offense.  :P GO GREEN!!!

Sadly, I can't argue with that.... :'(

I think he wants a cruiser, though, cause the speed is 27 knots. I don't think I've ever seen a recoil of 3.50...ever.

[Darman]

Does anyone else notice the very high BC, the 12.2:1 L:B, and the 3.50 recoil effect?  :o

Is the recoil bad?  (To be honest the ship started out a tad larger than it is now.)

Sadly, I can't argue with that.... :'(

I think he wants a cruiser, though, cause the speed is 27 knots. I don't think I've ever seen a recoil of 3.50...ever.

I am looking for a cruiser.  This is the first time in a while I've fooled around with springsharp, trying to get a feel for it again.  Also trying to get a feel for just simply designing ships again.  (Not that I ever really had a knack for it this summer.)

Al Hassan, Egypt Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8,560 t light; 8,893 t standard; 9,248 t normal; 9,532 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   525.00 ft / 525.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   160.02 m / 160.02 m x 13.72 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,728 lbs / 784 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   8.05 ft / 2.45 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   209.98 ft / 64.00 m   8.05 ft / 2.45 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   315.00 ft / 96.01 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 68,717 shp / 51,263 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 639 tons

Complement:
   470 - 612

Cost:
   £1.984 million / $7.937 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 216 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 1,379 tons, 14.9 %
      - Belts: 926 tons, 10.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 97 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 346 tons, 3.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 2,560 tons, 27.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,090 tons, 44.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 688 tons, 7.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 315 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,492 lbs / 3,398 Kg = 29.3 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.685
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   19.50 ft / 5.94 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Stern:      16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.09 ft / 5.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,684 Square feet or 1,736 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 591 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.36
      - Longitudinal: 2.10
      - Overall: 1.42
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

15 tons damage control
25 tons long-range wireless
25 tons living quarters (12 man marine detachment)
250 tons undefined (hopefully fire control)