New New Swiss Ships (war experience)

[Sachmle]

Four fighters and two scouts would be up on deck at all times. So only 14 planes below decks.

That would be -12' of deck space. There is only 150' of useable space forward of the bridge, since you can't really put the tail of a the aft most plane directly against the tower. At 27' (your numbers) long, x 4 fighters, + 2 scouts= 162'.  The most you could have is 2, barely, on deck waiting. Once they're launched 2 more could be brought up. That leaves you  96' for taking off.

Does that include the lift which is not usable deck space?

It doesn't matter, I was using the wrong ship for measurements.

[damocles]

The elevator that lifts aircraft from the hanger still marks the limits of where the takeoff run is. And if he has two elevators then it will be his stern elevator that marks that limit. You can't deckpark on top of the elevators either. So that means he has no room topside there to store planes in the weather.

Same criticism. I think at the numbers he claims, he's not got any way to move the planes and still give himself a takeoff run.   

D.   

[Carthaginian]

No damn way that it'll work out for that many planes.
Sorry, DF- those planes look like pieces of wood in a dovetail joint.

Half the number of planes on the carrier and it makes sense.

[The Rock Doctor]

Is the carrier going to have the island/funnels on the port side, or is that just a "hurried sketch" thing?

Room for crew, munitions, etc should not be an issue if she has proper cruiser freeboard below the hanger deck. 

I think it is not impossible to fill the hanger as you have it, with a ~Sopwith Pup type of fighter.  You'll have the same problem with growing aircraft as the Japanese and British did with their small carriers, but you know that. 

I do think the lifts are a problem in their current locations - they constitute large holes that take up nearly the entire width of the ship at that point.  They will leave very little room for personnel movement and ducts/pipes going around them.  Granted, it looks as if you could scale them down a few feet and still have them useful.

The deck park bothers me - it seems to me like something that comes into play after time, when a navy has enough confidence in its aircraft handling procedures to have the confidence that they can put the extra aircraft aboard.

[The Rock Doctor]

Mmm.  One other observation - that narrow flight deck won't be very forgiving.  Either the pilot's perfectly lined up, or he's going over a side.  Could be problematic for gun emplacements, depending on where you site them.

[Desertfox]

Was definitely a 'hurried sketch' but why not? Let's put them on the port side. *thumbs nose at rest of world*

Yeah, this carrier might be able to operate Wildcats, Applecores (ASW), and lightly loaded Dauntless, but no more than 10 total, and barely... Definitely no torpedo bombers, thought the Brits somehow operated Corsairs and Avengers of their escort carriers.

Deck park was more of a, we are going to have high attrition rates so let's stuff a few more planes on board, thing. Twenty planes fit in the hangar fine, and once they get bigger they can get folding wings.

Here's a more accurate hangar layout pic. Definitely need some smaller scouts. Guns would be moved further to the edges too.

[Carthaginian]

Looking MUCH more reasonable, though I think that the guns will have to go. there doesn't seem to be room for them AT ALL on this ship. Perhaps start out with a virtually unarmed carrier like most OTL navies?

Once you get flush-deck tech, I think you have a winner!

[miketr]

Reminds me of HMS Vindictive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vindictive_%281918%29

Michael

[Jefgte]

The flying deck is very low.
This is a better position for elevators.


Jef

[Ithekro]

Based on the drawing, I agree that there is very little room for ship based weapons because of the size of the hanger below the flight deck.  Maybe some small AA guns on sponsons and a main battery weapon of two on the stern or bow unde the flight deck.  The US light carriers and escort carrier I believe had one or two five inch guns under the aft deck at first...then they landed those for weight and maybe added AA guns...because what does a tiny carrier need a 5" anti-ship gun for anyway (it was not a 5"/38 DP gun, it was a 5"/51 off a battleship.)

American Escort Carriers operated Avengers because of those folding wings...They did not operate Dauntless Dive Bombers after the first carrier because they too up too much space.  Also the Avenger made a good ASW aircraft it seems as it could carry depth charges instead of a torpedo.

[Carthaginian]

because what does a tiny carrier need a 5" anti-ship gun for anyway (it was not a 5"/38 DP gun, it was a 5"/51 off a battleship.)

I think they were intended for shooting at surfaced subs, since the CVE's were largely used for ASW duties.
The planes force the sub up and the 5/L51's gave the carrier a way to shoot at the sub.

[damocles]

It was a tail gun used for ship killing (i.e. running away from enemy cruisers.)

At Samar that was how those guns were used. I think their AAA usage was minimal.

[Desertfox]

Another ship, subchaser/coastal minesweeper. Very cheap. Can theoretically be built using merchant rules.


S-1, New Switzerland Subchaser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   49 t light; 51 t standard; 54 t normal; 57 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   127.47 ft / 100.00 ft x 14.00 ft x 3.00 ft (normal load)
   38.85 m / 30.48 m x 4.27 m  x 0.91 m

Armament:
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on centreline amidships
   Weight of broadside 5 lbs / 2 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 339 shp / 253 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 1,100nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6 tons

Complement:
   9 - 12

Cost:
   £0.009 million / $0.037 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 12 tons, 21.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 32 tons, 58.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5 tons, 9.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5 tons, 9.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     122 lbs / 55 Kg = 62.3 x 1.6 " / 40 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 10.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 10.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 70.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Mid (50 %):      7.00 ft / 2.13 m (5.00 ft / 1.52 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Stern:      5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Average freeboard:   6.24 ft / 1.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 893 Square feet or 83 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 161 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 93 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 6.33
      - Overall: 1.11
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Guinness]

Another ship, subchaser/coastal minesweeper. Very cheap. Can theoretically be built using merchant rules.

That depends on what's in the misc weight...

[TexanCowboy]

Heh....I don't think that six depth charges on this ship (2 out of 49 tons, 4%), should lead it not to be able to built to merchant standards. I mean, this ship is obviously just a slightly modified fishing boat. The only thing that drives it over is the placing of a few depth charges on the ship......I think it should be able to be legally built to merchant standards.