Confederate Ships - 1920

[Guinness]

I like the 7 gun ship better. Also, the CSA has the 7.5"L45 in twins, fielded in the refit Buchanon and Mobile classes. If you are going to mount singles in enclosed gunhouses, the twins would be just as useful, and possibly a more efficient use of space. I suppose the drawback is that with twins (either mount and hoist or in turrets) you'd need to ship 250t fire control. That extra 150t would buy a more effective FC installation though.

[Carthaginian]

It'd buy a FC that is above and beyond what the ship would need.
This ship isn't, like an armored cruiser or a battleship, planning to shoot at things that it can barely see. It's designed to engage ships with lighter guns while maintaining itself in it's immune zone to their return fire. For the average 6" gun, this shouldn't require BB.AC fire control, or every ship engaging a 6" vessel would require BB/AC fire control.

A hunter doesn't need a 10-40x50mm scope if he is shooting short shot- a little 3-power will do fine.
Likewise, this cruiser doesn't need a 15m rangefinder to engage effectively- and very successfully- targets at medium range who are firing back with similar optics and less powerful weapons.

[maddox]

Why not using the French 195 mm twin enclosed mount and hoist, as used on the D IV's?

[Carthaginian]

Why not using the French 195 mm twin enclosed mount and hoist, as used on the D IV's?

I've thought abut using twin M&H for this ship, but I just can't bring myself to do it.
A '2nd Class Cruiser' just doesn't seem 'second class' if it looks like a heavy cruiser.

[Carthaginian]

As the Wheeler class has been judged a success at it's intended role (occupying much larger ships at a much smaller cost), so a follow-on class has been ordered by the Admiralty. The Tenetke class is half a knot slower than their older cousins, but their battery of ten 400-pounders makes them live up to their name- the Mvskoke word for 'Thunder.' Packing this respectable increase in firepower into a package only slightly longer and only 700 tons heavier than the Wheeler has been made possible by the recent advances in turbine technology and in the introduction of more efficient generators... though it still comes at a cost.

The ship has also had it's secondary battery deliberately split into single and double mounts in order to have four 50-poundes set as near to the edges of the superstructure as possible on order to give some anti-TB coverage to the bow and stern of the ship. Also, the torpedo battery has increased to include a pair of twin tubes on the fantail- the Admiralty obstinately insists that they are there to 'deter pursuers,' though what ship they believe might intend to catch the Tenetke is a mystery to the designers.

Two are planned for laydown in 1920 after the Tennessee class are completed:
Tenetke         (Thunder)
Vtoyehvette   (Lightning)

Tenetke, Confederate States of America 1st Class Cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   17,300 t light; 18,097 t standard; 19,800 t normal; 21,162 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   690.00 ft / 680.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   210.31 m / 207.26 m x 21.34 m  x 7.92 m

Armament:
     10 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (5x2 guns), 400.00lbs / 181.44kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (8 mounts), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
     2 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 1.58" / 40.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in one mount, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on side, 4 raised guns
   Weight of broadside 4,663 lbs / 2,115 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   470.00 ft / 143.26 m   17.60 ft / 5.36 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 118,000 shp / 88,028 Kw = 31.53 kts
   Range 9,130nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,065 tons

Complement:
   833 - 1,084

Cost:
   £3.936 million / $15.745 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 574 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 5,462 tons, 27.6 %
      - Belts: 2,742 tons, 13.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,027 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,551 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 142 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 4,126 tons, 20.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,740 tons, 34.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,500 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 398 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,117 lbs / 10,032 Kg = 56.8 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.08 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.02 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (65 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.11 ft / 6.13 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,531 Square feet or 3,115 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 627 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[TexanCowboy]

Then what exactly is the TT layout, if two are aft, and you don't have the tech yet for quintuple mounts?

[Carthaginian]

Then what exactly is the TT layout, if two are aft, and you don't have the tech yet for quintuple mounts?

Two triples are on the beam in the same place as with the Wheeler class.
Two twin mounts are located on the fantail in roughly the same positions as the catapults on a South Dakota.

I thought I was fairly specific in the description about that.

[Sachmle]

Then what exactly is the TT layout, if two are aft, and you don't have the tech yet for quintuple mounts?

Two triples are on the beam in the same place as with the Wheeler class.
Two twin mounts are located on the fantail in roughly the same positions as the catapults on a South Dakota.

I thought I was fairly specific in the description about that.

(2x3)+(2x2)=10. You listed 12.

[Carthaginian]

Then what exactly is the TT layout, if two are aft, and you don't have the tech yet for quintuple mounts?

Two triples are on the beam in the same place as with the Wheeler class.
Two twin mounts are located on the fantail in roughly the same positions as the catapults on a South Dakota.

I thought I was fairly specific in the description about that.

(2x3)+(2x2)=10. You listed 12.

Whoops... forgot to update the torps.
Drat.

Well, there would only be 10 tubes, though 12 could be mounted... makes little difference, really.

[maddox]

I should order 2 of those, Frenchified of course.

[The Rock Doctor]

I adore the names.  Powerful ship, too.

[Carthaginian]

I adore the names.  Powerful ship, too.

The CSA- with so damn many of my outdated and tightly-built BB's to upgrade- can't manage the battle cruiser game ATM.
So, we'll have to make ships that require battle cruisers to hunt, but only cost 60% as much to build. It's just an economy issue.

Of course, the REAL issue is how I can turn the Okie class into something semi-useful in modern warfare.

[Carthaginian]

The Oklahoma class are also planned to undergo a very minimalist refit sometime in the 1920-1921 timeframe. Though they are still very hard nuts to crack, they are getting to be rather slow and their armament scheme is very dated. This refit brings them into the modern era, and has some rather pleasant side effects as well- a knot and a half speed gain!

Oklahoma, Confederate States of America Battleship laid down 1910 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   18,501 t light; 19,635 t standard; 20,586 t normal; 21,346 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
   152.40 m / 152.40 m x 27.43 m  x 7.47 m

Armament:
     8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
     10 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     3 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1910 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     3 - 1.58" / 40.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1910 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (10x1 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,836 lbs / 5,822 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   150.00 ft / 45.72 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm

  - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 33,200 shp / 24,767 Kw = 21.48 kts
   Range 6,690nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,711 tons

Complement:
   859 - 1,117

Cost:
   £1.939 million / $7.755 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,344 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 7,737 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 3,951 tons, 19.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,976 tons, 9.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,600 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 210 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,161 tons, 5.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,808 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,085 tons, 10.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 452 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,804 lbs / 12,158 Kg = 21.8 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.30 ft / 4.97 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,584 Square feet or 3,213 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 844 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Old Engines:      1,182 tons

New Engines:      1,161 tons

New Engines:      1.161 BP
New Guns:         0.009 BP
------------------------------------
Total BP Cost:   1.170 BP
x               2
------------------------------------
Equipment Cost:   $2.34
+ 20% Orig. Cost: $3.70
------------------------------------
Total Cost:         $6.04

The three 25-pounder anti-airship guns are located port and starbord of the bridge, and on the 'Q' turret.
The 2-pounder AA guns are located on the tops of 'A', 'X' and 'Y' turrets.
The half-pounder MG's are dispersed about the ship where ever there is room. :)