Project 888 destroyer killer

[damocles]

Keiden, Holland Project 888 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   3,475 t light; 3,613 t standard; 4,016 t normal; 4,339 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   432.00 ft / 432.00 ft x 43.20 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
   131.67 m / 131.67 m x 13.17 m  x 4.27 m

Armament:
      6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 670 lbs / 304 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   327.55 ft / 99.84 m   7.59 ft / 2.31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 32,503 shp / 24,247 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 726 tons

Complement:
   251 - 327

Cost:
   £0.830 million / $3.320 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 84 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 384 tons, 9.6 %
      - Belts: 100 tons, 2.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 35 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 238 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,136 tons, 28.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,571 tons, 39.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 541 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 7.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,598 lbs / 1,632 Kg = 34.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.538
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.78 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.86 ft / 6.97 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.55 ft / 4.43 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.55 ft / 4.43 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   14.55 ft / 4.43 m
      - Stern:      14.55 ft / 4.43 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.21 ft / 4.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 116.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,879 Square feet or 1,196 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 365 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 1.03
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

300 tons misc.
  25 tons radio
  25 tons radar
  25 tons ASW
100 tons torpedoes (3 reloads)
100 tons mines or depth charges
  25 tons spare


=======================================
Do you think its too slow?

[Guinness]

IMHO: light cruisers built now need a speed of at least 31 knots. Others will disagree.

The good news is you have some strength to spend. Your overall strength is 1.04. Cross-sectional need not be 1.0. In fact, cross-sectional strength is only important when building destroyers to 0.50 overall strength.

[maddox]

Absolutely too slow.  

Main guns a tad heavy for shooting DD's, and not enough of'm.  Also, I seem to overlook the superfiring twin aft and/or forward between the drawing and SS file.

The 75mm secundaries , what is the job of those?
Seems odd,  breechloaders in that position and size.

An overlarge DD in my opinion, with non of the advantages and not the capacity to be a cruiser.  
On the other hand, those huge torpedo's are a danger to any ship.

In her role, I would ditch the deck armor, the 75mm secundaries (unless those are AAA mounts) and get more main guns, probably go down a caliber size too, something like a 5" gun

[Guinness]

Well, if it really is to be a DD killer, then the Dutch 120mm would be perfectly adequate. In that case, you shouldn't need anything smaller (like the 75mm) at all.

Such a ship, if fast enough, would also make a good DD leader. Torpedoes of some sort would make sense in that case. Get it under 120mm and you're really onto something...

Deck armor: I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, a purely belted cruiser might make sense, if this ship is only worried about DDs. On the other hand, an old fashioned protected deck with no belt might also make sense. Maybe a very thin anti-splinter deck? Something like 15mm? I suppose if going that thin, one might not need it at all.

A while back, I messed around with a similar concept, which only had enough belt armor to cover the magazine spaces, leaving the machinery completely unprotected. It had a full armored deck though. I still think such a concept is viable, but again I know others will disagree.

[maddox]

A tad heavier (but not that much)

huite cent quatre-vingt huite, French Destroyer hunter laid down 1920

Displacement:
   3.850 t light; 3.978 t standard; 4.606 t normal; 5.108 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   495,41 ft / 492,13 ft x 41,01 ft x 14,76 ft (normal load)
   151,00 m / 150,00 m x 12,50 m  x 4,50 m

Armament:
      8 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52,72lbs / 23,92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 428 lbs / 194 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,50" / 38 mm   0,50" / 13 mm      1,50" / 38 mm
   2nd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 49.312 shp / 36.787 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.130 tons

Complement:
   279 - 363

Cost:
   £0,995 million / $3,981 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 53 tons, 1,2%
   Armour: 24 tons, 0,5%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 24 tons, 0,5%
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 1.724 tons, 37,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.748 tons, 37,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 756 tons, 16,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 6,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3.106 lbs / 1.409 Kg = 58,9 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 13,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,541
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,41 ft / 7,44 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      15,52 ft / 4,73 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15,52 ft / 4,73 m
      - Stern:      15,52 ft / 4,73 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,47 ft / 5,02 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 137,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96,4%
   Waterplane Area: 13.967 Square feet or 1.298 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 337 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,52
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

100 ton FC
25 ton huelsmeyer radar
25 ton long range marconi
50 ton Torpedo (2 fish/tube)
100 ton ASW

[Guinness]

Maddox: I don't think she needs nearly that much hull. Bunkerage is probably more than required too.

If I were drafting requirements for this ship, it would nearly need to be able to operate in seas in excess of the typical quarry, and have an operational radius of say 20% more than one's own destroyers. So probably something like 6000nm at 12 knots and seakeeping of 1.0 would be adequate. This is presuming it hangs around with a larger fleet of course.

There may also be cause for an Omaha-esque end-on fire solution. It seems unlikely that such a ship would always be able to turn it's beam to it's prey, or even that it would want to.

[miketr]

Way to slow for a Anti-DD ship.  Need to shoot for 33 knots.  If your prey is DD's then the Dutch 120mm should me more than enough.  150's are nice but they won't be as fast to fire.

Michael

[damocles]

Well, if it really is to be a DD killer, then the Dutch 120mm would be perfectly adequate. In that case, you shouldn't need anything smaller (like the 75mm) at all.

The 120mm is not heavy enough to stop and sink a torpedo armed attacker in my opinion before he can launch. Same reason I went to the 150s for the 1059s is that range matters. This is a philosophical matter. I like heavier shells  over sheer volume of fire. Its a personal choice.

The 75s add flavor close in and they are good enough to stop freighters. I'm ;)0 Dutch. 150mm shells cost a lot of money.

Such a ship, if fast enough, would also make a good DD leader. Torpedoes of some sort would make sense in that case. Get it under 120mm and you're really onto something...

The torpedoes are the heart of the ship. Without going into too much detail, I ask of you where that ship will fight and when?  

Deck armor: I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, a purely belted cruiser might make sense, if this ship is only worried about DDs. On the other hand, an old fashioned protected deck with no belt might also make sense. Maybe a very thin anti-splinter deck? Something like 15mm? I suppose if going that thin, one might not need it at all.

It serves a purpose. I was going to dispense with it altogether, but then I thought of New Switzerland....... :(

A while back, I messed around with a similar concept, which only had enough belt armor to cover the magazine spaces, leaving the machinery completely unprotected. It had a full armored deck though. I still think such a concept is viable, but again I know others will disagree.

They will. I don't doubt that many people will recognize this cruiser as based off of actual Dutch thinking in the RTL.

Well, if it really is to be a DD killer, then the Dutch 120mm would be perfectly adequate. In that case, you shouldn't need anything smaller (like the 75mm) at all.

Kill freighters, kill surfaced subs, kill smugglers and the occasional evil doer too small for a full salvo, chaser guns I call them. The calibre is suited to the usual targets a peacrtime  warship would encounter. And if the destroyers do get that close in I need something for point blank effect.  

Such a ship, if fast enough, would also make a good DD leader. Torpedoes of some sort would make sense in that case. Get it under 120mm and you're really onto something...

Top speed is not what I look at. I look at sustained battle speed. The range bands show me 28 knots is a tad slow here, but then a 50 knot torpedo or a 1000 knot shell makes three knots difference rather meaningless.  (a knot or so, I would like but I add a thousand tons to get to 31 knots.) I have to build a lot of these on a shoestring budget.   :'(

Deck armor: I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, a purely belted cruiser might make sense, if this ship is only worried about DDs. On the other hand, an old fashioned protected deck with no belt might also make sense. Maybe a very thin anti-splinter deck? Something like 15mm? I suppose if going that thin, one might not need it at all.

There is plunging light shell fire.....

Absolutely too slow.  

Main guns a tad heavy for shooting DD's, and not enough of'm.  Also, I seem to overlook the superfiring twin aft and/or forward between the drawing and SS file.

The 75mm secondaries , what is the job of those? See above.
Seems odd,  breechloaders in that position and size.  Will fix this, they are supposed to be QFs.

An overlarge DD in my opinion, with non of the advantages and not the capacity to be a cruiser.  
On the other hand, those huge torpedo's are a danger to any ship.

That is correct: the torpedoes are there to be the teeth.

In her role, I would ditch the deck armor, the 75mm secondaries (unless those are AAA mounts) and get more main guns, probably go down a caliber size too, something like a 5" gun

I don't have a 125mm yet, and I am working on the AAA. The chaser guns are there to chase away the gnats. (torpedo boats? MAS boats?).  

==============================================

[Guinness]

Sorry, I meant 120m, as in length, as in Type 1 dry dockable, etc. etc. :)

120mm guns will mean you can keep the ship down considerably in size, or carry more guns. Both could be greatly advantageous for this sort of ship.

Also, if this ship is essentially an escort, it only needs to kill a torpedo carrier before it can reach the real target, presumably a frigate. In this case, I suspect needing two or three hits instead of one should be acceptable.

All that said, I suppose the real question on caliber is what Dutch conclusions from the last pacific war are.

[damocles]

Have any of you determined the 888's actual inspiration yet?

D.

[Guinness]

Nope. I'm too busy toying with this idea in my head again. :)

Here's a couple. Neither have armor which is going to drive displacement up to be sure. Neither fit in a type 1 DD, which is unfortunate. First no armor but 8x120mm guns. I'm using conventional 21" torps, but there's enough weight for 24" I think.

Anti-DD cruiser, Netherlands Anti-DD cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   3,600 t light; 3,726 t standard; 4,033 t normal; 4,278 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   433.07 ft / 426.51 ft x 42.65 ft x 14.92 ft (normal load)
   132.00 m / 130.00 m x 13.00 m  x 4.55 m

Armament:
     8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.06lbs / 0.48kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 402 lbs / 183 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

  - Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 50,000 shp / 37,300 Kw = 31.08 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 553 tons

Complement:
   252 - 328

Cost:
   £0.979 million / $3.914 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 53 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 32 tons, 0.8 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 27 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,738 tons, 43.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,577 tons, 39.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 433 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 5.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,169 lbs / 984 Kg = 41.1 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.35 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (12 %):   20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Mid (43 %):      19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Stern:      11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.79 ft / 5.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 155.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,345 Square feet or 1,147 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 348 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.05
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

And one with 5x150mm in 5 singles:

Anti-DD cruiser, Netherlands Anti-DD cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   3,700 t light; 3,828 t standard; 4,140 t normal; 4,389 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   433.07 ft / 426.51 ft x 42.98 ft x 15.20 ft (normal load)
   132.00 m / 130.00 m x 13.10 m  x 4.63 m

Armament:
      5 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.06lbs / 0.48kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 502 lbs / 228 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 162
   8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm

   - Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 51,000 shp / 38,046 Kw = 31.10 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 561 tons

Complement:
   257 - 335

Cost:
   £1.021 million / $4.082 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 65 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 31 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 25 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,771 tons, 42.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,634 tons, 39.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 440 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 4.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,216 lbs / 1,005 Kg = 21.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.92 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.35 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (12 %):   20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Stern:      11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.10 ft / 5.21 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 155.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,440 Square feet or 1,156 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 354 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.16
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[damocles]

K class, Holland torpedohruizer D laid down 1920

Displacement:
   3,994 t light; 4,131 t standard; 4,624 t normal; 5,019 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   426.51 ft / 426.51 ft x 42.65 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   130.00 m / 130.00 m x 13.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 502 lbs / 228 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 45,508 shp / 33,949 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 889 tons

Complement:
   279 - 364

Cost:
   £0.982 million / $3.926 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 63 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 244 tons, 5.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 15 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 212 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,591 tons, 34.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,695 tons, 36.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 631 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 8.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,892 lbs / 1,312 Kg = 54.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.452
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.42 ft / 4.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,623 Square feet or 1,080 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 383 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 2.16
      - Overall: 1.08
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Notes:


Misc. 400 tons.
150 tons fire control.
25 tons radar.
25 tons radio
25 tons acoustics
96 tons torpedoes 3 reloads
79 tons for depth charges and mines
Inclined belt as deck armor.

[Jefgte]

Good choice, I made nearly the same ship with the Amazonas cruiser rebuilt  ;)
But they are named "Squadron DDs Leader"

...The Raider Cruisers Amazonas & Tarapaca are now obsolete , poor armament, low speed, light armor... but they are just 10yo.

NUS Admiralty is studying the possiblity to rebuilt these cruisers.

1st project: Squadron DDs Leader
Change armament to 4T2x120 - 12x533TT - 30kts.

Jef

[TexanCowboy]

28 knot's is enough to be caught by a decent light cruiser, that could pound the heck out of this think. I recommend fixing the guns to "centerline ends", eliminating half the machine guns, and removing deck and belt armour for more speed.

[damocles]

28 knot's is enough to be caught by a decent light cruiser, that could pound the heck out of this think. I recommend fixing the guns to "centerline ends", eliminating half the machine guns, and removing deck and belt armour for more speed.

This is the version that was supposed to go up(see above>)

Dogger Bank. The slower German cruisers escaped even though they were often three to four knots slower than the British.

Speed only matters in the weapon. The weapon platform needs to be able to dodge the weapon. Turn and sustained speed are more important than top speed.

Besides for one 8000 ton light cruiser that I will torpedo, I get twice the number of ships?