Current Dutch situation.

[damocles]

Hello all.

I am trying to get a feel for what has happened to the Netherlands since 1915.

Those players who had interaction with that nation as a NPC I sure could use an update on what interactions that occurred with your own nation in game play from 1915 - 1918. Much thanks.

D.

[Guinness]

I moved this to meeting room, which is a better place for it than news.

[damocles]

Thank you.

[maddox]

No problem,  as mods it's our job to make sure.

[Logi]

No NPC interaction, but just a few remainders on relations with certain nations.

Hmm. Well Netherlands had been supporting Eire (Ireland) in boosting it's own power and is well loved in Ireland. The lost of Netherlands as a PC nation meant becoming reliant on the ESC. Previous levels of interaction can be restored.

As for relations with the RRC, relations have been a bit colder since the lost of the war. The Republic was disappointed and let-down when the Netherlands just gave up. Was a bit unhappy with them. There have been no interactions since the end of the war.

[TexanCowboy]

Relations with Romania can..........lets not go there.

[maddox]

France in its blissfull ignorance, just  thinks, " live and let live".

[Desertfox]

DIE NETHERLANDS!!!

Now that we got that out of the way... welcome! Course you should be able to tell by now how NS feels about the Dutch.

[damocles]

No NPC interaction, but just a few remainders on relations with certain nations.

I don't know what happened with the Dutch PC. I do know that as I learn more about the Holland situation I inherit, I realize that is not what I would do. WHY the Dutch player played the way he did, has me puzzled.     

Hmm. Well Netherlands had been supporting Eire (Ireland) in boosting it's own power and is well loved in Ireland. The lost of Netherlands as a PC nation meant becoming reliant on the ESC. Previous levels of interaction can be restored.

That means we have to talk trade relations-especially as regards mutual aid.   

As for relations with the RRC, relations have been a bit colder since the lost of the war. The Republic was disappointed and let-down when the Netherlands just gave up. Was a bit unhappy with them. There have been no interactions since the end of the war.

What was the original intent of that war? What was the objective? If the Siamese were going to dig a canal, why didn't the Dutch compete to control the canal the way they should have, which is through trade and finance to influence the outcome?  ???

What's done is done. How can the RRC and the United Provinces restore relations under the current governments? What does the RRC need so that we can mutually aid each other. There is a certain nation that took something that belongs to Holland......and we want it back.

NvR.   

[maddox]

I don't know what happened with the Dutch PC. I do know that as I learn more about the Holland situation I inherit, I realize that is not what I would do. WHY the Dutch player played the way he did, has me puzzled. 

That's the disadvantage of democracy. Changes in international  relations can happen with each election. 

Hmm. Well Netherlands had been supporting Eire (Ireland) in boosting it's own power and is well loved in Ireland. The lost of Netherlands as a PC nation meant becoming reliant on the ESC. Previous levels of interaction can be restored.

What was the original intent of that war? What was the objective? If the Siamese were going to dig a canal, why didn't the Dutch compete to control the canal the way they should have, which is through trade and finance to influence the outcome?  ???

Pretty simple, it's a strategic matter. A Kra Canal would mean some countries can get a fleet at the Dutch Indonesian Back Door without running a gauntlet trough the Indonesian straits or going the long way around the world.

Also, revenue, Singapore is an important civilian port, and a lot of commerce passes there.

[TexanCowboy]

And for Romania...we've made attempts to apologize for the war, but only the Baltic Confederation has accepted.

[Logi]

What was the original intent of that war? What was the objective? If the Siamese were going to dig a canal, why didn't the Dutch compete to control the canal the way they should have, which is through trade and finance to influence the outcome?  Huh

What's done is done. How can the RRC and the United Provinces restore relations under the current governments? What does the RRC need so that we can mutually aid each other. There is a certain nation that took something that belongs to Holland......and we want it back.

As Maddox said, it was a strategic matter. As Korpen told me, the only reason for a Kra Canal was a need to circumvent the Dutch Malacca Straits. The only reason that such would be needed is a war with the Netherlands. Thus Korpen tried to stop the building of one.

The Republic got roped in with promises of the land in Siam and when Indochina urged the Republic to join so that Indochina could reunify Vietnam. During the War, the Netherlands also provided none of the aid it said it would (aka transports for troops) and thus caused the Republic to lose several old-but-capable battleships.

Basically the Republic has lost trust in the Netherlands who has repeatedly failed to deliver on it's promises. If relations are to be restored...

A goodwill gift would help a lot.

As for mutual aid. The RRC tends to have quite a lot of money (and quite a lot of troops). The "currency" the Republic currently runs is the need for ships. So just a few ship contract would greatly boost relations.

And if you make a promise, deliver on it.

[The Rock Doctor]

Recap of the Dutch in the sim...

-Early alliance (1898) with the DKB and Swiss; this didn't last in a formal sense for too long.

-The first Dutch player sold off northern Indochina to the Middle Kingdom around 1900 or thereabouts.  I think it was considered indefensible from France.

-In 1907, the Dutch intervened in an incident between the Swiss and the French.  This turned into "the Second Pacific War", with the Hapsburgers, DKB, Japanese, and Middle Kingdom all piling in on the Dutch side.  The Dutch had strained relations with their allies and were sometimes seem to be letting them be cannon fodder.  The war ended in an acromonius peace agreement that nearly triggered a new war, as the Dutch started talking about selling the NEI to New Switzerland.  This seemed to be a powerplay aimed at ensuring the Dutch conditions for a ceasefire were met.  As you see, the Dutch ended up keeping the NEI.

-In 1912, Iberia and the Hapsburgers went to war with the Ottomans.  The Dutch shadowed Iberian/Hapsburger shipping and relayed coordinates to the Ottomans, supplied arms and other info.  This didn't quite escalate into a war but it was close.

-Around this time, the Dutch, ESC, and Bavaria are aligning as the Leipzeg Compact.

-In early 1916 (I think) the Dutch mediated a conclusion to a nascient war between Burma and European friends on one hand, and RRC on the other hand.

-In late 1916 to early 1917, as mentioned above, the Dutch (with the RRC) went to war with Siam, the DKB, Indochina, and a couple of powers such as Romania that didn't really get actively involved.  There is a thread in the News section describing the war.  Dutch strategies did not make a lot of folks happy, and the war ended after a significant accident and the fall of the Dutch government in early 1917.

-Since then, the Dutch were largely NPC.

*****

In 1915, the Dutch sold the Kongo to Gran Colombia.  Payment was made in 2/15 and through 1916.  The military cash associated with the deal went to building up Dutch facilities in Flyssen, part of the non-historical island group of Chuvosa, in the South Atlantic (see map forum).  I assume the civilian cash was invested in the NEI.

Gran Colombia has occasionally yakked with the Dutch about buying out territories in the Caribbean - which in some cases are essentially enclaves surrounded by Colombian territory.  The Dutch have been uninterested for what I assume to be strategic reasons.

Relations between the Dutch and the Colombians are influenced strongly by Dutch relations with our Iberian allies and Hapsburger friends.  Since these are usually quite poor, and the Dutch demonstratably...unsympathetic...we can do business, but we've never been true friends.

[ctwaterman]

Well Welcome to the Game.....

The Empire of Italia - used to be your neighbor in Africa but since your nation sold the Congo to Gran Colubia that is no longer true.

Relations were Neighborly in the since that good fences make good neighbors.  ;)

Relations soured a bit due to actions leading up to the Sale of Congo and the War with the DKB and Siam.

Charles

[miketr]

Hello and welcome

I am, sorta, the Iberian Player.

In short as others noted Iberia and the Dutch don't much like each other.  As a matter of fact Iberia and the Dutch do NOT even have diplomatic relations at this point.  The source of it dates back to the 1907-08 Pacific War.

As to NPCs

The Dutch were giving technical support to the Ottomans and Bharat.  Assistance to those nations R&D and doing so basically for free.  I cannot say what Korpen's exact motivation for doing so was.  I was running those NPR's also and I didn't ask him why he was doing it just tried to keep that he was doing so out of my mind when I was making decisions for Iberia. The Ottomans have a player.  Bharat is still NPR but there budget is such that they will be a non factor for some time; they are buying large amounts of territory from the French and Brandenburgers.

Michael