New New Swiss Caiptal Ships

[Valles]

Eventually.

[Sachmle]

It has been like 10 years since anyone declared war on the Swiss, aren't we overdue?

[Ithekro]

What would be the point when all they do is fight themselves.

Besides...who would want to occupy them?

[Tanthalas]

It has been like 10 years since anyone declared war on the Swiss, aren't we overdue?

Valid Point

What would be the point when all they do is fight themselves.

Besides...who would want to occupy them?

Rohan could possibly be inspired to if the situation was bad enough for the Population, im sure an intact MK would view it as their responsibility.

[Desertfox]

It has been like 10 years since anyone declared war on the Swiss, aren't we overdue?

Don't worry, I am working on that...  ;D

Rohan could possibly be inspired to if the situation was bad enough for the Population, im sure an intact MK would view it as their responsibility.

You do NOT want to occupy NS. Think Iraq cubed... With the civilians being better armed than the regular army. I will soon start a storyline which will make that very clear.

[ctwaterman]

Hmmm

So a Civilian Population better armed then the Military and hostile.... Oh well I guess the Civilian Population is expendible Colonization will begin in about 3 years....   Especially if an Intact Mark was doing the occupation.

This is the Early 20th Century not the Late 20th or early 21st.  The use of Collective responsibility, and Concentration camps would be assumed for a hostile force occupying a country.   The British did it in South Africa and the use of heavy Artillary to quell riots could be assumed.  It might not be economically feasible to occupy New Switzerland but an obstinate occupyer who had the ability to conqueor it in the first place could easily depopulate it.

[Ithekro]

Aside from Australia it isn't that hard since they are island nations.  Stave them out.  This isn't "Land war in Asia" territory.  For Australia, all the muslims to the east need is a green light and help and they'd probably gladly wipe out all the Swiss on the continent, or make it clear that resistance would not be tolerated.

These aren't extactly "enlightened times" where human life and others opinions are greatly valued when one is invading.  Civilian casulaties might be avoided if possible, but most powers in this era I think wouldn't object to extreme messures if the population rebelled.  Sure other powers might object and cause an incident over it, but it is not exactly out of character for the times.

[Tanthalas]

the answer is simple, FEAR.  If you can make your enemy more afraid of you than they are of anything else then you win.  However the people of the world are nolonger willing to allow a warrior to do whatever necessary to protect them.  That said in 1919 I could Pacify the NS in oh say a year.

[Desertfox]

Genocide is feasible, total military defeat is feasible, direct occupation is not feasible.

Fear does not work, just ask WWII Germany...

Swiss Australia is the size of OTL United States, It is militarily impossible to completely occupy it or starve it into submission. Firanj is not strong enough and on the wrong side of a massive desert to help.

The Swiss home islands can be starved into submission, but a true (legal) blockade would be a logistics nightmare. And if the Swiss Government has failed to 'occupy' the islands, what makes others think they will have more success?

My position is ironically both extremely vulnerable and secure at the same time. At this point in time, I can be militarily defeated with ease, but it's nearly impossible to pull of a successful invasion of the Swiss Home Islands.

[Ithekro]

"Fear does not work, just ask WWII Germany..."

Bad example.  Without outside support (mainly Allied bombings and invasion of occupied Europe and Soviet invasion from the east) fear works.  For a while.  (it isn't the only way.  Rebuilding works, see present day Germany and Japan)

It depends on what is done to the population in the generations that follow...see present day former imperialist holdings and their relationships to their former masters and/or similar countries (like say the USA who mostly wasn't an imperialist power....mostly.  Just like to poke our noses in, make sure your government isn't supporting the commies.  Or you were the Philipines, or some New World protectorates (Cuba, Nicaragua, or the like)).  Some go over well for the most part and enjoy being in the "Empire" for one reason or another (how many indepedence movements are there in Hawaii and Puerto Rico these days?) while others are so bitter they might become "imperialist" just to precent it from happening to them again.


Though the question remains...why a battlecruiser line that can't operate as a line of battle against any other line of battleships?

[Tanthalas]

I do agree with you Ithekro, Fear is only half the Solution but you have to have it before you can rebuild.  Anyone that dosnt think Japan was afraid of us after WW2 needs to take a visit to Hiroshima, or Nagasaki.  The Germans were equaly afraid (seriously we had just kicked their asses)

The Battlecruisers in question the NS have IMHO no intention of building, they would take to long and suck up to many recourses.

[Desertfox]

I was talking about the resistance movements that sprung up against Germany, especially the ones in Russia.

Yeah, you can occupy NS, but you have to know exactly how to do it. And a straight military occupation is not the right way.

As for the ships. None of my potential enemies has a true battleline, that can't be defeated by these ships. Maoria's is too old and slow. Against them I can pick them apart at the optimum range and time. Neither China has any sort of battleline, and the Dutch have gone will all BCs. The Swiss do not follow conventional tactics, so I don't need conventional ships.

And besides a force of 3 27knot BBs and 2 30knot BCs is nothing to sneeze about.  

[Valles]

Besides...who would want to occupy them?

Yo! ^_^

My reasoning, established before DF really returned to the controls, essentially runs like this - that there no less than four places in the Pacific where the climate and such would have supported a large population that didn't exist in our timeline:

New Switzerland, a tropical island somewhere between Sicily and Hispaniola in size, with an extensively squiggly coastline and all the technology to have a major native seafaring presence dating back well before European contact; personally I suspect that Zheng He visited if nothing else.

Australia, where a major lake-system's rain patterns and microclimate are dropped right in the middle of what is, in our world, brutal desert. Probably it's still not an easy continent to live on, but much of it is liable to be less Sahara and more Arizona, with matching increases in the Aboriginal population - again, a factor liable to increase outside interest and contact, earlier, provoking civilization.

Neue Brandenburg is substantially larger than New Zealand, and my historical background for the Maori involves sea trade as far west as India; they were definitely civilized, if not united, when the Germans arrived after being thrown out of Europe.

And fourth, obviously, Mayan, called Maoria in most of the world, was actually pretty empty until the eighteenth century or so, having first been settled no earlier than fifteen-hundred-ish, from places like Easter Island. Even today it still has most of its megafauna, because the early colonists were civilized enough to set up conservation methods, and there are noteworth chunks of literally virgin wilderness left... but there were still one or two million people there before the Maori started resettling.

When I started playing and asked about what development had been done on the backstory of Maoria and the other Pacific nations, the answers I got seemed, at least to me, to boil down to, "Blank slate, have fun."

So, in the absence of data, I 'built' an idea of the area's history whose broad strokes run that...

There were two feuding kingdoms on New Switzerland, which were played off each other then conquered by white settlers, who invited and attracted immigrants from all across the world to settle on the lands they'd taken. They did not, however, kill off the natives, and the descendants of both groups still live there - the middle and upper-class brackets are white, the quasi-psychotic Americans In Funny Hats we know and mock, while the factory-working proletariat and sharecropping rural poor are polynesian still, just kept politically irrelevant via poll taxes, intimidation, and similar chicanery. The population spread is, overall, about half-and-half, call it eight million polynesians on the Home Island to seven million whites.

Hawaii, Papua, and Australia have about the same pattern, except for local variations like lacking unified governments (Papua and Australia) or having had them outright crushed rather than torn apart bit by bit (Hawaii). The smaller islands have been left mostly untouched as of little interest to anyone but their inhabitants save as potential coaling stations.

The Brandenburgers, with a larger population coming from the Old Country, had no interest in conquering or using the native population of Neue Brandenburg - most of those who didn't flee on their own after the first attempts at resistance were shattered under musket volleys were actively displaced. The moved population, which was considerable, set sail in turn for Mayan, the only place where there was enough empty room to take them. Maori living there are in the general position of American Indians of this era OTL - massively outnumbered, herded onto reservations, and actively under siege on a number of different levels.

The Battlecruisers in question the NS have IMHO no intention of building, they would take to long and suck up to many recourses.

...Why are we trying to talk him out of it, again? ^_^

[Desertfox]

When I started playing and asked about what development had been done on the backstory of Maoria and the other Pacific nations, the answers I got seemed, at least to me, to boil down to, "Blank slate, have fun."

I don't know who told you so, but NS at least had a complete and detailed backstory. I made sure of that.

I'll give the story from my POV tommorow.

[Ithekro]

Maori was intended as the "Blank Slate" country when we redid the maps for N3 because some of use had a desire to have an entirely fictional country in a place where there was nothing that didn't need to have Europeans as an origin point.  No one took us up on that offer at first, but we left it there since where had been a "Maoria" in N2, just it was New Zealand (normal-ish islands/native population) though that didn't have any real backstory aside that they sometimes provided mercenaries to local powers and where into a equivalent to rugby with an internation team (based on the historical All Blacks).  The change was because Brandenburg needed space to justify its industry, and it didn't want to share Australia with the Swiss...who also needed justified space (we gave them the Home Islands kicking and screaming if I recall)

The Swiss Home Islands are...supposedly about 700 miles across at the most and 450 miles from top top to bottom, and as pointed out, rather jagged, the core area being roughly 300 by 300 miles  (if the original cast of Numenor is used)  If I recall this was partly shot down and the once large island was broken up into smaller ones covering the same area, but with probably half the total land mass.  Probably.