New New Swiss Caiptal Ships

[Desertfox]

The Phoenix class heavy cruisers have once again been delayed to push this ship up. It is based on the Carraciolo class BBs.


Picture is by Red Admiral at WW, for one of his versions of the Carraciolos. Ship would look very similar.

NSS United States, New Switzerland Battleship laid down 1921

Displacement:
    32,101 t light; 33,791 t standard; 36,863 t normal; 39,321 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
    721.00 ft / 721.00 ft x 102.00 ft x 34.40 ft (normal load)
    219.76 m / 219.76 m x 31.09 m  x 10.49 m

Armament:
      8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,050.00lbs / 929.86kg shells, 1921 Model
      Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
      on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1921 Model
      Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
      on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1921 Model
      Quick firing guns in deck mounts
      on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
      Machine guns in deck mounts
      on side, evenly spread
    Weight of broadside 18,640 lbs / 8,455 kg
    Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
   - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    12.0" / 305 mm    450.00 ft / 137.16 m    12.00 ft / 3.66 m
    Ends:    4.00" / 102 mm    271.00 ft / 82.60 m    12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
        1.00" / 25 mm    450.00 ft / 137.16 m    24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    14.0" / 356 mm    7.00" / 178 mm        14.0" / 356 mm
    2nd:    2.00" / 51 mm          -                  -

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Electric motors, 4 shafts, 93,517 shp / 69,764 Kw = 27.00 kts
    Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 5,530 tons

Complement:
    1,329 - 1,729

Cost:
    £9.019 million / $36.078 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 2,344 tons, 6.4 %
    Armour: 10,974 tons, 29.8 %
       - Belts: 3,293 tons, 8.9 %
       - Torpedo bulkhead: 400 tons, 1.1 %
       - Armament: 3,455 tons, 9.4 %
       - Armour Deck: 3,659 tons, 9.9 %
       - Conning Tower: 167 tons, 0.5 %
    Machinery: 3,220 tons, 8.7 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,213 tons, 41.3 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,763 tons, 12.9 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      44,675 lbs / 20,264 Kg = 21.8 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
    Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
    Roll period: 17.5 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck
    Block coefficient: 0.510
    Length to Beam Ratio: 7.07 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 26.85 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
    Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
       - Stem:        32.00 ft / 9.75 m
       - Forecastle (30 %):    25.00 ft / 7.62 m
       - Mid (50 %):        20.00 ft / 6.10 m
       - Quarterdeck (15 %):    20.00 ft / 6.10 m
       - Stern:        20.00 ft / 6.10 m
       - Average freeboard:    22.84 ft / 6.96 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.9 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.2 %
    Waterplane Area: 49,450 Square feet or 4,594 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 210 lbs/sq ft or 1,027 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.95
        - Longitudinal: 1.60
        - Overall: 1.00
    Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
    Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
    Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

Low BC and very deep draught.  Otherwise, nice.

[Desertfox]

Following US, will be three of these. These are based of the US Lexington class, and like said class one of the three will be finished as an aircraft carrier. They will look the same as US, but longer and with cagemasts.

NSS Constitution
NSS Alliance
NSS Enterprise (finished as CV)

Constitution class, New Switzerland Battlecruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
    33,522 t light; 35,255 t standard; 38,448 t normal; 41,003 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
    790.00 ft / 790.00 ft x 100.00 ft x 33.40 ft (normal load)
    240.79 m / 240.79 m x 30.48 m  x 10.18 m

Armament:
      8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,050.00lbs / 929.86kg shells, 1922 Model
      Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
      on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1922 Model
      Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
      on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1922 Model
      Quick firing guns in deck mounts
      on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
      Machine guns in deck mounts
      on side, evenly spread
    Weight of broadside 18,640 lbs / 8,455 kg
    Shells per gun, main battery: 91

Armour:
   - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    9.00" / 229 mm    555.00 ft / 169.16 m    12.00 ft / 3.66 m
    Ends:    Unarmoured
      Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
        0.50" / 13 mm    555.00 ft / 169.16 m    24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    12.0" / 305 mm    7.00" / 178 mm        12.0" / 305 mm
    2nd:    2.00" / 51 mm          -                  -

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Electric motors, 4 shafts, 138,783 shp / 103,532 Kw = 30.00 kts
    Range 10,150nm at 15.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 5,748 tons

Complement:
    1,372 - 1,784

Cost:
    £10.367 million / $41.469 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 2,344 tons, 6.1 %
    Armour: 9,950 tons, 25.9 %
       - Belts: 2,514 tons, 6.5 %
       - Torpedo bulkhead: 246 tons, 0.6 %
       - Armament: 3,088 tons, 8.0 %
       - Armour Deck: 3,931 tons, 10.2 %
       - Conning Tower: 172 tons, 0.4 %
    Machinery: 4,708 tons, 12.2 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,170 tons, 42.1 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,926 tons, 12.8 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      42,614 lbs / 19,329 Kg = 20.8 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
    Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
    Roll period: 17.2 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck
    Block coefficient: 0.510
    Length to Beam Ratio: 7.90 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 28.11 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
    Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
       - Stem:        34.00 ft / 10.36 m
       - Forecastle (30 %):    27.00 ft / 8.23 m
       - Mid (50 %):        20.00 ft / 6.10 m
       - Quarterdeck (15 %):    20.00 ft / 6.10 m
       - Stern:        20.00 ft / 6.10 m
       - Average freeboard:    23.64 ft / 7.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.9 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.9 %
    Waterplane Area: 53,119 Square feet or 4,935 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,007 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.96
        - Longitudinal: 1.38
        - Overall: 1.00
    Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
    Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
    Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

My previous comments apply - plus, not much of a torpedo bulkhead on these guys.

[Desertfox]

I'll actually be building this one before the others.

The cancellation of the weird sisters left 5 twin 14" turrets without use. The decision was made to build a battleship with them.



NSS Australia, New Switzerland Battleship laid down 1920

Displacement:
   30,515 t light; 32,029 t standard; 35,041 t normal; 37,451 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.00 ft / 720.00 ft x 100.00 ft x 33.40 ft (normal load)
   219.46 m / 219.46 m x 30.48 m  x 10.18 m

Armament:
     10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
     12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 105.00lbs / 47.63kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 15,900 lbs / 7,212 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
  - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
   Main:    12.0" / 305 mm    430.00 ft / 131.06 m    12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:    4.00" / 102 mm    290.00 ft / 88.39 m    12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
       1.00" / 25 mm    430.00 ft / 131.06 m    24.00 ft / 7.32 m

  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:    14.0" / 356 mm    7.00" / 178 mm        14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:    2.00" / 51 mm          -                  -

  - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 90,557 shp / 67,556 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,422 tons

Complement:
   1,279 - 1,664

Cost:
   £7.458 million / $29.831 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,957 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 10,931 tons, 31.2 %
      - Belts: 3,222 tons, 9.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 382 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armament: 3,584 tons, 10.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,583 tons, 10.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 161 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,166 tons, 9.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,110 tons, 40.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,527 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46,148 lbs / 20,932 Kg = 33.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
           - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:        32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):    25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):        20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):    20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:        20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:    22.84 ft / 6.96 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.7 %
       - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 48,413 Square feet or 4,498 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 199 lbs/sq ft or 971 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
       - Cross-sectional: 0.95
       - Longitudinal: 1.53
       - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Desertfox]

The original Lexington's had a BC of 0.501. These ships will not be risked on shallow waters, so the deep drought is not a problem.

Torpedo bulkheads are overrated. And from what I've heard thicker TB's are worse. The Swiss aim to contain not prevent the blast, and so far it has worked perfectly. All of my capital ships have suffered considerable underwater damage and survived (Constitution - 5 torpedoes, Alliance - 1 Torpedo, 1 Mine, United States - 1 Heavy Torpedo). 

[Walter]

Maybe so, but , in my eyes, half an inch will be completely ineffective and thus completely useless.

[Desertfox]

I don't see it as a true TB, but rather as reinforcements for all internal bulkheads to allow the ship to resist damage better.

[Carthaginian]

*overheard in Norfolk*

"Daddy, Daddy, let's start a war with the Swiss... their ships wouldn't be able to come within 50 miles of any of our major ports!"

[P3D]

I don't understand the ships. As if it would be some New Swiss complacency at work? ???
The 27kts ships are too slow to catch a BC, with paper or cardboard thin armor. It is worth mentioning that since 1908 the average torpedo warhead size at least doubled, and without TDS torpedo explosions will breach either machinery or magazine spaces. Eggshells armed with pneumatic hammer, all of them.
NEDS. You have only 13 secondary mountings on a side.

The Australia - the sim has 4 turrets the drawing 5.

[Ithekro]

Remember that the Lexingtons were originally Battle Scouts rather than Battlecruisers.  Very lightly armored, very fast, and heavily gunned to act as eyes for the fleet large enough to take on the typical scout cruiser eyes most countries used.  They were not meant for any kind of battle line, nor I think to even counter the likes of the British or Japanese Battlecruisers.  Recast they were more like Battlecruisers, but still relatively lightly armored and designed as a scout unit to run with the new American light cruiser...the Omaha.

[Guinness]

Dry dock depth is not a factor we capture in Nverse3, but is something I'll pay some lip service to:

For instance, here's some real DD depths for the US c. mid 1930's:

Pearl Harbor: 32.5 feet, Puget Sound, 35ft, New York Naval Shipyard: 32.95 feet. Others were deeper, but none deaper in practice than that at Hunters Point at 37.58 feet (some docks had deeper sills, but did not have channels deeper than 36 feet leading to them).

I don't have numbers at hand, but I'm under the impression that the Brits and Japanese were in a similar situation.

Re the Lexingtons: The 14" design had a designed normal draft of 31.08 feet with a BC of 0.501. I suspect it was this low in an attempt to minimize resistance to get very high speeds for the era. Torpedo protection and even magazine protection would have been difficult with so fine a hull. Indeed, her designed beam was only just short of 90 feet.

The 16" design had a normal draft of 31 feet with a BC of about 0.55 (doing the math manually and then checking myself with SS since Friedman doesn't have that figure in his tables). Part of what figured in this, I suspect, was much improved underwater protection vs. the previous design.

As aircraft carriers, the Lexingtons had BCs of 0.564, btw. They were, of course, bulged though.

All that said, with these fine hulls, narrow beams, and very deep drafts, coupled with small weights devoted to anti-torpedo protection and longish lengths, I suspect all these ships would be quite vulnerable to torpedo damage. Couple that to expected poor turning radiuses, and if I were the Swiss I'd be very worried about submarines.

[P3D]

Remember that the Lexingtons were originally Battle Scouts rather than Battlecruisers.  Very lightly armored, very fast, and heavily gunned to act as eyes for the fleet large enough to take on the typical scout cruiser eyes most countries used.  They were not meant for any kind of battle line, nor I think to even counter the likes of the British or Japanese Battlecruisers.  Recast they were more like Battlecruisers, but still relatively lightly armored and designed as a scout unit to run with the new American light cruiser...the Omaha.

The Swiss has no battleline to speak of, why would they need 'scouts' for them?

Guinness: Light displacement for all these ships are less. Of course, after surviving 4 torpedoes, a ship would sit quite low in water, and would take some time to raise the ship.

[Carthaginian]

I notice that the engines in those ships are done by laydown year.
In short... why are they done according to WW rules, not ours?

[Walter]

Uhm... because of the 1917 Naval propulsion tech perhaps?

1917: Engine year 1920, Max. non-VTE power 40,000 HP/Shaft, Engine year = year laid down.