NUS Atlantic Shipyards

[Sachmle]

1. 40mm is almost useless for an end belt. IIRC it takes at least 3"/75mm to stop 6" shells at range and anything smaller closer obviously. If you intend to slug through enemy DDs/CLs then 75mm would be the minimum IMHO. 40mm is only good for stopping 3-4" guns at longer ranges.

2. Said end belt doesn't cover 16m of the hull, which will be the 1st thing hit according to Murphy's Law.

3. I don't like 6 gun designs due to the inherent spotting issues, IMHO 8 is minimum for effective spotting.

4. Without an upper belt I'd put heavier armor on the "Hoist/Below deck" part of the 12cm guns to help protect the shell handling rooms/magazines.

5. Don't see much point in the 13mm armor on the 12.7mm machine guns. It won't stop much and would just make them slower to train IMHO.

6. Block Co-efficient is a little low (0.462) for my liking. I figure most RL BCs had a value ~0.510-0.570 and shoot for that range. To get that you'd have to make her shallower or longer/wider.

7. If not intended to be near/operating with the battleline then 50mm deck is fine. If intended to occasionally slug it out w/ other BCs, Small BBs, or PDNs I'd try to up that to 75mm as well.

8. Good speed.

[Jefgte]

I agree globaly with your comments, Sam, this AC SS is not tip top & must be rework.
But this is just a SS test with; 1921-16000t-32kts-3T2x275.


Jef

[Jefgte]

1921, NUS AC laid down 1921 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   15 000 t light; 15 796 t standard; 16 983 t normal; 17 932 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 77.43 ft x 26.22 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 23.60 m  x 7.99 m

Armament:
     4 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (2x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     4 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (2x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6 143 lbs / 2 786 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.32 ft / 4.06 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   3rd:   3.15" / 80 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 9.06" / 230 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 69 000 shp / 51 474 Kw = 27.52 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 136 tons

Complement:
   743 - 966

Cost:
   £3.781 million / $15.122 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 741 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 4 796 tons, 28.2 %
      - Belts: 1 953 tons, 11.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1 321 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 394 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 129 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2 413 tons, 14.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 750 tons, 39.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 983 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22 065 lbs / 10 009 Kg = 34.8 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.80 ft / 6.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 29 443 Square feet or 2 735 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 729 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.06
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

-----------------------------------

Same armament & protection but update to 30kts

NUS, NUS AC laid down 1921 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   17 900 t light; 18 758 t standard; 20 087 t normal; 21 151 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   649.61 ft / 649.61 ft x 78.74 ft x 26.18 ft (normal load)
   198.00 m / 198.00 m x 24.00 m  x 7.98 m

Armament:
     4 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (2x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     4 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (2x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6 143 lbs / 2 786 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   423.23 ft / 129.00 m   13.32 ft / 4.06 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   203.41 ft / 62.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     22.97 ft / 7.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   3rd:   3.15" / 80 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 9.06" / 230 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100 000 shp / 74 600 Kw = 29.99 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 394 tons

Complement:
   843 - 1 096

Cost:
   £4.425 million / $17.701 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 741 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 5 412 tons, 26.9 %
      - Belts: 2 259 tons, 11.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1 357 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 651 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 144 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3 496 tons, 17.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 951 tons, 39.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 188 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25 329 lbs / 11 489 Kg = 39.9 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.87 ft / 8.80 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.26 ft / 7.70 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Stern:      20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.77 ft / 6.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 34 873 Square feet or 3 240 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 723 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Kaiser Kirk]

1. 40mm is almost useless for an end belt. IIRC it takes at least 3"/75mm to stop 6" shells at range and anything smaller closer obviously. If you intend to slug through enemy DDs/CLs then 75mm would be the minimum IMHO. 40mm is only good for stopping 3-4" guns at longer ranges.

You'll see just that sort of belt on several of my designs. In my case the point is not to stop a common shell, or an AP. The idea is twofold- 1) to guard the forward waterline against riddling by shell splinters, and 2) stop low caliber HE shells. A common or AP may put a small hole in the belt, and damage internal structures, but damage control can easily patch a single hole.   

All-or-Nothing may counter that one should count on the shell passing through undetonated instead, but then you get into if 40mm will fuse the shell, and slow it enough it will detonate before it emerges from the other side of the bow, and contrast that to the negative of a shell hitting above an unarmored waterline- or detonating in the water near it, fusing, and punching dozens of little holes in your bow. 

For a ship dependent on speed, having one's bow taking on water is a bad thing.

[Jefgte]

Similar as KK

40mm is a splinters protection.
Better strength of the bow vs impact.
& I hope, lower water penetration.

for much Guys, "All or Nothing" mean
12.5 - 230 - 12.5

for me;
40 - 230 - 40

or
80 - 305 - 80
--------------------------
That is the German disposition (Kaiser classBB for ex.)
Not "All or Nothing" but "Citadelle"


Jef

[P3D]

Er... I don't understand exactly what would fuze a shell, against which the 40mm 'splinter armor' is supposed to protect.

It will only protect against not base-fused common shells - which is admittedly most of the 4-6" shells anyways, but still...

[Jefgte]

Testing a CL with AC Bariloche engines-32238shp-1909

Cost ;4930t-1467t (engines)=3463t >>>>3.463BP & 4.93$

1921, NUS CL with Bariloche engine laid down 1921 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   4 930 t light; 5 144 t standard; 5 847 t normal; 6 410 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   524.93 ft / 524.93 ft x 52.49 ft x 15.16 ft (normal load)
   160.00 m / 160.00 m x 16.00 m  x 4.62 m

Armament:
     8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
     4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 872 lbs / 396 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   12 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     52.49 ft / 16.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32 273 shp / 24 075 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 266 tons

Complement:
   333 - 434

Cost:
   £1.195 million / $4.780 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 109 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 938 tons, 16.0 %
      - Belts: 486 tons, 8.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 44 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 398 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1 467 tons, 25.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 266 tons, 38.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 918 tons, 15.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 499 lbs / 3 402 Kg = 69.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.53 ft / 4.43 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 18 194 Square feet or 1 690 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 410 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.05
      - Longitudinal: 0.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

Some minor SS adjustments in the armor in agreement with the drawing

UNS San Carlos de Bariloche, Naciones Unidas Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   9 475 t light; 10 018 t standard; 11 496 t normal; 12 678 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   533.00 ft / 529.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 22.01 ft (normal load)
   162.46 m / 161.24 m x 17.07 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
     6 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (3x2 guns), 389.34lbs / 176.60kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
     8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3 254 lbs / 1 476 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 165

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   177.00 ft / 53.95 m   12.50 ft / 3.81 m
     2.00 ft / 0.61 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   6.50 ft / 1.98 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32 243 shp / 24 053 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 7 500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 660 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   554 - 721

Cost:
   £0.897 million / $3.587 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 407 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 3 511 tons, 30.5 %
      - Belts: 2 048 tons, 17.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 786 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 611 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 66 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1 596 tons, 13.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 802 tons, 33.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 021 tons, 17.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 674 lbs / 7 563 Kg = 42.8 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.89
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.59

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (55 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.40 ft / 5.91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 013 Square feet or 2 045 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 105 lbs/sq ft or 511 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.57
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25 tons for Marconi
100 tons for hight light blockaus
35 tons reserve weight

the original

San Carlos de Bariloche class, NUS Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.

2 ships in class: San Carlos de Bariloche and Ciudad Jardín Lomas del Palomar.

Displacement:
   9,475 t light; 10,013 t standard; 11,490 t normal; 12,672 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   533.00 ft / 529.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   162.46 m / 161.24 m x 17.07 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
     6 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (3x2 guns), 380.00lbs / 172.37kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
     8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,198 lbs / 1,451 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 165

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   209.00 ft / 63.70 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32,238 shp / 24,049 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,659 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   554 - 721

Cost:
   £0.897 million / $3.587 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 407 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 3,531 tons, 30.7 %
      - Belts: 2,068 tons, 18.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 786 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 611 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 66 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,596 tons, 13.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,816 tons, 33.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,015 tons, 17.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,833 lbs / 7,635 Kg = 43.2 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (55 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.40 ft / 5.91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,014 Square feet or 2,045 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 105 lbs/sq ft or 513 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.57
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25 tons for Marconi
100 tons reserve weight

-------Rebuild drawing

[Jefgte]

I must certainly modify the drawing rebuild because the Recoil -0.89- is too high.
Add bulges & maintain the futur speed to 27kts


Jef

[Jefgte]

1920 AC Bariloche class refurbished




UNS San Carlos de Bariloche, Naciones Unidas Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   10 200 t light; 10 747 t standard; 11 908 t normal; 12 837 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   533.00 ft / 529.00 ft x 56.00 ft (Bulges 58.00 ft) x 22.02 ft (normal load)
   162.46 m / 161.24 m x 17.07 m (Bulges 17.68 m)  x 6.71 m
(Add little bulges to reduce recoil.)

Armament:
     6 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (3x2 guns), 389.34lbs / 176.60kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
     8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3 216 lbs / 1 459 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 165
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   177.00 ft / 53.95 m   12.50 ft / 3.81 m
     2.00 ft / 0.61 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   6.50 ft / 1.98 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 52 800 shp / 39 389 Kw = 27.01 kts
   Range 10 500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 090 tons

Complement:
   569 - 740

Cost:
   £0.970 million / $3.880 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 402 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 3 511 tons, 29.5 %
      - Belts: 2 048 tons, 17.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 785 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 611 tons, 5.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 67 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1 967 tons, 16.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 920 tons, 32.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 708 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15 125 lbs / 6 861 Kg = 38.8 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.12 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (55 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.40 ft / 5.91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 013 Square feet or 2 045 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 522 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

25 tons for Marconi
12t tons for torpedoes
200 tons for hight light blockaus
30 tons for 2 seaplanes
100 tons reserve weight
---------------------------
Oil boilers: 9.474$ in 1920H1
Refurbishment in 1920H2
10200tl - 12837tfl
Calculation
10200t/1000x0.2 >> BP 1.2 BP & $2.46
New engines: 1967t >> BP1.967 >> $3.934
New guns: 200t >> 0.2BP >> 0.2$
Total cost: BP 3.367 & $ 6.594

[Sachmle]

Don't forget

Refurbishments

A refurbishment is a more comprehensive refit which allows for replacement of obsolete or undesired fittings as well as overhauling any original equipment that remains.  Since a ship can get by on overhauls through its entire career, a refurbishment is never mandatory.  However, a ship that is refurbished is likely to be more effective than a ship that is merely overhauled.

A refurbishment costs 20% of the original dollar cost of construction, plus the dollar and BP costs of new components described below.  Refurbishments take the greater of 2.5 months, or 25% of the ship's original minimum time of construction plus one month per 2 BP of new components added to the ship.

This equals 1.895$ BTW (9.475 x 0.20)

[Jefgte]

Thanks Sachmle,

I have counted the new displacement 10200t ...  ::)

[Jefgte]

With the 1909 engines of the AC Bariloche class, NUS Admiralty could built 2 CLs to replace the Amazonas class rebuilt in Seaplanes Carrier in 1920.
This 2 cruisers use the same Bariloche disposition for boilers & turbines.
The stacks are at the same dispostion too.




4900t-CL, NUS 32238shp-4T2x152 laid down 1921 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   4 900 t light; 5 132 t standard; 5 834 t normal; 6 396 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   524.93 ft / 524.93 ft x 52.49 ft x 15.12 ft (normal load)
   160.00 m / 160.00 m x 16.00 m  x 4.61 m

Armament:
     8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
     2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
     2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount
     4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1 000 lbs / 454 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   351.05 ft / 107.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   104.99 ft / 32.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     68.90 ft / 21.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32 230 shp / 24 044 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 264 tons

Complement:
   333 - 433

Cost:
   £1.226 million / $4.904 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 125 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 911 tons, 15.6 %
      - Belts: 459 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 43 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 398 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1 465 tons, 25.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 218 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 934 tons, 16.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 181 tons, 3.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 962 lbs / 3 158 Kg = 64.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 91 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Stern:      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.13 ft / 4.61 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 18 194 Square feet or 1 690 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 397 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

2CLs built with Bariloche engines
Cost=
4900t-1435t (engines) = 3435t > 3.435BPs & 4.9$

[Carthaginian]

A good buy... becomes a ship a lot like what I'm planning on doing with the Rattlesnakes.
Also, it gives me the idea to cannibalize the engines off those old ships. ;)

[The Rock Doctor]

It would cost next to nothing to raise B and X mounts, and give you much better firing arcs as a result.