Swiss Concepts for the Twenties...

[TexanCowboy]

Foxy, those ships could be murdered by a light cruiser, say 3,000 tons, mounting armour and going say 28 know with 6-7 6'' guns.

[damocles]

I'm willing to forego the I's and K's as design mistakes and try to keep things real. I don't intend to make the radar mistake again.

D.

[The Rock Doctor]

Damocles, would you be willing to ret-con those Dutch designs?  Reduce the gun battery and use the weight savings elsewhere in the desgin?  I think this could be done without distorting results of the Dutch/DKB battles from 1916/7, and we'd lose the irritant factor of those designs.

[damocles]

Damocles, would you be willing to ret-con those Dutch designs?  Reduce the gun battery and use the weight savings elsewhere in the desgin?  I think this could be done without distorting results of the Dutch/DKB battles from 1916/7, and we'd lose the irritant factor of those designs.

Just by halving the main 120mm gun battery to 5 main guns in 5 main mounts or even 3 twins I think we can do something to satisfy the justified criticisms. Let me springsharp an I class that way and see if I can get the hull characteristics up. If I can, I'll do the same to the K class and we can put this to bed. How does that sound?       

D.

[The Rock Doctor]

Sounds peachy - just keep the light displacement about the same, if possible.

[damocles]

Retcons.

I-class, Holland  torpedojager laid down 1910

Displacement:
   1,493 t light; 1,557 t standard; 2,050 t normal; 2,445 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   387.14 ft / 387.14 ft x 32.81 ft (Bulges 35.10 ft) x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   118.00 m / 118.00 m x 10.00 m (Bulges 10.70 m)  x 3.70 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 265 lbs / 120 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 0.7" / 17.7 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 21,039 shp / 15,695 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 888 tons

Complement:
   152 - 198

Cost:
   £0.198 million / $0.793 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 66 tons, 3.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 58 tons, 2.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 844 tons, 41.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 466 tons, 22.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 557 tons, 27.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     625 lbs / 284 Kg = 11.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.435
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 83
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.82 ft / 6.65 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.90 ft / 3.93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 150.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,006 Square feet or 744 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 151 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.51
      - Longitudinal: 0.90
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

80 tons   available                 
1915 radar                25 tons
1918 toepedoes      24 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons     
Misc.                           26 tons       

Trial speed 31 knots

=========================================

And K class

K-class, Holland  torpedojager laid down 1921

Displacement:
   1,473 t light; 1,533 t standard; 1,843 t normal; 2,091 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   387.14 ft / 387.14 ft x 32.81 ft (Bulges 35.10 ft) x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   118.00 m / 118.00 m x 10.00 m (Bulges 10.70 m)  x 3.70 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4 mounts), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 267 lbs / 121 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,274 shp / 14,378 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 559 tons

Complement:
   139 - 182

Cost:
   £0.203 million / $0.810 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 64 tons, 3.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 57 tons, 3.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,250 tons, 67.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 370 tons, 20.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 6.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,740 lbs / 1,697 Kg = 70.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.79
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 20.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.391
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 83
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.82 ft / 6.65 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.90 ft / 3.93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 23.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,781 Square feet or 723 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 404 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 416 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.36
      - Longitudinal: 2.84
      - Overall: 1.47
   Caution: Poor stability - excessive risk of capsizing
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

125 tons   available                 
1915 radar                25 tons
1918 toepedoes      (refit) 32 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons     
Misc.                           51 tons

Trial speed 31 knots

That ought to work.

D.

[Walter]

Might want to tweak the K a bit more...

Caution: Poor stability - excessive risk of capsizing

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.79

Yikes!  :o

[Sachmle]

That and the I class were laid down in 1916 not 1910 and those 6ys will make a huge difference in you engine weights.

[damocles]

I-class, Holland  torpedojager laid down 1916

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,561 t standard; 1,930 t normal; 2,226 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   387.14 ft / 387.14 ft x 32.81 ft (Bulges 35.10 ft) x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   118.00 m / 118.00 m x 10.00 m (Bulges 10.70 m)  x 3.70 m

Armament:
     5 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 265 lbs / 120 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 17.7" / 449.58 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

  - Armour deck: 0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20,013 shp / 14,930 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 665 tons

Complement:
   145 - 189

Cost:
   £0.302 million / $1.209 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 65 tons, 3.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 57 tons, 3.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 746 tons, 38.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 572 tons, 29.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 430 tons, 22.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 4.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     786 lbs / 356 Kg = 14.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.410
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 83
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.82 ft / 6.65 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.90 ft / 3.93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 143.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,863 Square feet or 731 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 188 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.63
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 0.67
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


84 tons   available                  
1913 torpedoes      24 tons (refit)
ASW gear.                 25 tons (refit)      
Misc.                           35 tons  

84 tons   available                  
1913 toepedoes      24 tons (refit)
ASW gear.                 25 tons (refit)      
Misc.                           35 tons  

32 knots on trials.

======================================================

k-class, Holland  torpedojager laid down 1921

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,560 t standard; 1,873 t normal; 2,123 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   387.14 ft / 387.14 ft x 32.81 ft (Bulges 35.10 ft) x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   118.00 m / 118.00 m x 10.00 m (Bulges 10.70 m)  x 3.70 m

Armament:
     5 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 267 lbs / 121 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

  - Armour deck: 0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 19,525 shp / 14,566 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 563 tons

Complement:
   142 - 185

Cost:
   £0.445 million / $1.778 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 65 tons, 3.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 57 tons, 3.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 672 tons, 35.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 579 tons, 30.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 373 tons, 19.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 8.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     843 lbs / 382 Kg = 16.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 93 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.397
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.82 ft / 6.65 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.90 ft / 3.93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 138.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 54.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,807 Square feet or 725 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 192 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.64
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 0.68
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


150 tons   available  
1915 radar                25 tons                
1918 toepedoes      32 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons      
Misc.                           68 tons  

32 knots on trials.

I will work on the K class as I have those already building. I don't want to go through the hassle of another six sim reports revised...... :(

[damocles]

I-Class, Netherlands Jager laid down 1916

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,573 t standard; 1,905 t normal; 2,171 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 33.46 ft x 11.91 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 10.20 m  x 3.63 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 61.73lbs / 28.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 309 lbs / 140 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 17.7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,773 shp / 24,448 Kw = 31.73 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 598 tons

Complement:
   143 - 187

Cost:
   £0.353 million / $1.412 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 968 tons, 50.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 434 tons, 22.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 405 tons, 21.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 3.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     462 lbs / 210 Kg = 8.8 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.56
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 9.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.425
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   17.55 ft / 5.35 m
      - Mid (38 %):      17.55 ft / 5.35 m (9.19 ft / 2.80 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
      - Stern:      11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.59 ft / 3.84 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,243 Square feet or 766 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 144 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.84
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

I had a lot of help with that one. I think that would be the one we will stipulate as the retcon I class as it meets the 50% engine and 1916 hull design limits.

The K class still needs work.

D.

 

[Desertfox]

Better?


Kidd class, New Switzerland Super Destroyer laid down 1922

Displacement:
   1,250 t light; 1,306 t standard; 1,554 t normal; 1,752 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   392.00 ft / 392.00 ft x 34.00 ft x 10.20 ft (normal load)
   119.48 m / 119.48 m x 10.36 m  x 3.11 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 240 lbs / 109 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170
   9 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 29,566 shp / 22,056 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 5,400nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 445 tons

Complement:
   123 - 160

Cost:
   £0.479 million / $1.914 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 30 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 761 tons, 49.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 386 tons, 24.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 304 tons, 19.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 4.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     413 lbs / 187 Kg = 12.9 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.20 ft / 5.24 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.92 ft / 3.63 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,204 Square feet or 762 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 140 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.71
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[damocles]

K-class, Holland  torpedojager laid down 1921

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,559 t standard; 1,839 t normal; 2,063 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   387.14 ft / 387.14 ft x 32.81 ft (Bulges 35.10 ft) x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   118.00 m / 118.00 m x 10.00 m (Bulges 10.70 m)  x 3.70 m

Armament:
     5 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 267 lbs / 121 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

  - Armour deck: 0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,403 shp / 18,951 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 504 tons

Complement:
   139 - 182

Cost:
   £0.481 million / $1.924 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 64 tons, 3.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 57 tons, 3.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 774 tons, 42.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 478 tons, 26.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 339 tons, 18.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 8.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     523 lbs / 237 Kg = 9.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.390
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.82 ft / 6.65 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.90 ft / 3.93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 158.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,778 Square feet or 723 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 159 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.51
      - Longitudinal: 1.01
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


150 tons   available  
1915 radar                25 tons                
1918 torpedoes      32 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons      
Misc.                           68 tons

I think that will be the K class. I know the engine isn't at 50% but, I need the range.

D.

[Sachmle]

I think that will be the K class. I know the engine isn't at 50% but, I need the range.

Range comparison of large (1000t or bigger) fleet/ocean going Torpedo boats/destroyers/whatever you call them.

AVG RANGE: 5094nm AVG CRUISE SPEED: 12.71kts
MEAN RANGE: 4921nm MEAN CRUISE SPEED: 12.75kts
AVG RANGE @ 10kts: 7190nm
AVG RANGE @ 12kts: 5950nm
AVG RANGE @ 14kts: 3550nm
AVG RANGE @ 15kts: 2994nm

AVG SPEED: 30.44kts

Confederate Island Class:	1500nm @ 14kts (Batch 1)	7000nm @ 12kts (Batch 2)
American E Class:	5000nm @ 12kts
American F Class:	7000nm @ 12kts
German GTB1912 Class:	7000nm @ 10kts
German GTB1916 Class:	7000nm @ 10kts
French Leopard Class:	1655nm @ 16kts
French Tigre B Class:	3200nm @ 14kts
French Le Fantastique Class:	6000nm @ 14kts
Columbian Quito Class:	6800nm @ 10kts
Columbian Santa Isabel Class:	8000nm @ 10kts
Columbian Tulua Class:	10000nm @ 10kts
Columbian Velez Class:	9000nm @ 10kts
Austrian Z-10 Class:	2400nm @ 14kts
Iberian TBD1912 Class:	5000nm @ 12kts
Iberian TBD1917 Classes:	7000nm @ 10kts (Leader)	7400nm @ 10kts (Regular)
Italian DD1908 Class:	3000nm @ 11kts
Italian DD1909 Class:	4400nm @ 12kts
Italian Francesco Crispi Class:	2700nm @ 10kts
Japanese Hinoki Class:	8200nm @ 12kts
Maorian DE1913 Class:	4000nm @ 14kts
Maorian DE1914 Class:	3000nm @ 14kts
Maorian DE1915 Class:	3000nm @ 14kts
Maorian DE1916 Class:	5000nm @ 14kts
Maorian DD1918 Class:	5000nm @ 14kts
Unionista Arica Class :	7000nm @ 10kts
Unionista D-200 Class:	5315nm @ 12kts
Unionista Putre Class:	5000nm @ 12kts
Dutch H Class:	7000nm @ 12kts
Original Dutch I Class:	9000nm @ 12kts
Rorrhim Éomund Class:	2500nm @ 15kts
Russian Novik Class:	4550nm @ 12kts
Russian Improved Novik Class:	4825nm @ 12kts
Ukrainian Kiev Class:	5060nm @ 12kts
Swiss Saipan Class:	3500nm @ 15kts
Swiss Dayan Class:	1900nm @ 15kts
Norman A Class:	4077nm @ 15kts
Norman B Class:	2400nm @ 14kts

[damocles]

Did you notice that certain nations with the same defense problem I have, chose range over speed?

Just saying.....I found it curious.

[Sachmle]

Did you notice that certain nations with the same defense problem I have, chose range over speed?

Just saying.....I found it curious.

The only nations with the same 'defense problems' as you are realistically the French, Normans, Germans, Colombians, Confederates, Iberians, and Swiss.

AVG SPEED: 30.67kts
AVG RANGE @ 10kts: 7775nm
AVG RANGE @ 12kts: 7000nm
AVG RANGE @ 14kts: 4175nm (Small sample)
AVG RANGE @ 15kts: 3159nm (Small sample)