Iberian PDN Upgrade Project

[miketr]

Some time in the 1920's I will have to figure out what to do with my four remaining Pre-Dreadnought BB's. 

Current Designs

Alfonso IV, Iberia Battleship laid down 1899

Displacement:
   12,852 t light; 13,483 t standard; 14,386 t normal; 15,109 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   403.90 ft / 403.54 ft x 91.86 ft x 22.64 ft (normal load)
   123.11 m / 123.00 m x 28.00 m  x 6.90 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (4x2 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7,161 lbs / 3,248 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   264.80 ft / 80.71 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   5.91" / 150 mm   138.71 ft / 42.28 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Upper:   4.72" / 120 mm   264.80 ft / 80.71 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   9.06" / 230 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 10.24" / 260 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,488 ihp / 10,808 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,626 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   656 - 853

Cost:
   £1.524 million / $6.095 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 895 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 4,147 tons, 28.8 %
      - Belts: 2,337 tons, 16.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,285 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 395 tons, 2.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 130 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,300 tons, 16.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,226 tons, 36.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,534 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 284 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,369 lbs / 6,518 Kg = 21.5 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.06 ft / 4.59 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.06 ft / 4.59 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.06 ft / 4.59 m
      - Stern:      15.06 ft / 4.59 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.51 ft / 4.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,113 Square feet or 2,519 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 738 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.05
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Long Range Radio 25 tons, 259 tons construction reserve.

Battleships 2
Pelayo, Spain Battleship laid down 1897

Displacement:
12 641 t light; 13 282 t standard; 14 386 t normal; 15 270 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
403,87 ft / 403,54 ft x 91,86 ft x 22,64 ft (normal load)
123,10 m / 123,00 m x 28,00 m x 6,90 m

Armament:
4 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1897 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 9,84" / 250 mm guns in single mounts, 476,75lbs / 216,25kg shells, 1897 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 137,06lbs / 62,17kg shells, 1897 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
16 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1897 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns in single mounts, 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1897 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 7 304 lbs / 3 313 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 265,78 ft / 81,01 m 11,52 ft / 3,51 m
Ends: 5,91" / 150 mm 137,73 ft / 41,98 m 11,52 ft / 3,51 m
Upper: 8,66" / 220 mm 265,78 ft / 81,01 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 101% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 7,87" / 200 mm
2nd: 9,06" / 230 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
3rd: 4,72" / 120 mm - -
4th: 2,76" / 70 mm - -
5th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 10,24" / 260 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14 488 ihp / 10 808 Kw = 18,00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 989 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
656 - 853

Cost:
£1,542 million / $6,168 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 913 tons, 6,3%
Armour: 4 620 tons, 32,1%
- Belts: 2 721 tons, 18,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 1 077 tons, 7,5%
- Armour Deck: 691 tons, 4,8%
- Conning Tower: 130 tons, 0,9%
Machinery: 2 375 tons, 16,5%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 644 tons, 32,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 745 tons, 12,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 0,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15 423 lbs / 6 996 Kg = 23,0 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,52
Metacentric height 9,0 ft / 2,7 m
Roll period: 12,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,18
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,39

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,600
Length to Beam Ratio: 4,39 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20,44 ft / 6,23 m
- Forecastle (17%): 14,57 ft / 4,44 m
- Mid (50%): 14,57 ft / 4,44 m
- Quarterdeck (17%): 14,57 ft / 4,44 m
- Stern: 14,57 ft / 4,44 m
- Average freeboard: 14,97 ft / 4,56 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114,7%
Waterplane Area: 27 113 Square feet or 2 519 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 660 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,98
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[miketr]

The idea here is to make the ships into more useful second line warships.  Able to act as convoy escorts able to stand up to cruisers and the like.  Engines are getting old so they will need to be replaced.  I will figure out the costs in a bit.

Pelayo (reconstruction), Iberia Battleship laid down 1897 (Engine 1922)

Displacement:
   13,001 t light; 13,616 t standard; 14,386 t normal; 15,003 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   403.86 ft / 403.54 ft x 91.86 ft x 22.64 ft (normal load)
   123.10 m / 123.00 m x 28.00 m  x 6.90 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1897 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns in single mounts, 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1897 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1897 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1897 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1897 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6,835 lbs / 3,100 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   265.78 ft / 81.01 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   5.91" / 150 mm   137.73 ft / 41.98 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Upper:   8.66" / 220 mm   265.78 ft / 81.01 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   3rd:   4.72" / 120 mm         -               -
   4th:   2.76" / 70 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 10.24" / 260 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22,002 shp / 16,413 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,700nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,387 tons

Complement:
   656 - 853

Cost:
   £1.277 million / $5.109 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 854 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 5,590 tons, 38.9 %
      - Belts: 2,721 tons, 18.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,258 tons, 8.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,481 tons, 10.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 130 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 746 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,681 tons, 32.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,385 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,130 tons, 7.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,798 lbs / 8,980 Kg = 29.6 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.52 ft / 4.73 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Stern:      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.96 ft / 4.56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,113 Square feet or 2,519 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 665 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.01
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Long Range Radio 25 tons,
Fire Control 250 tons
855 tons construction reserve.

Alfonso IV (reconstruction), Iberia Battleship laid down 1899 (Engine 1922)

Displacement:
   13,000 t light; 13,629 t standard; 14,386 t normal; 14,992 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   403.87 ft / 403.54 ft x 91.86 ft x 22.64 ft (normal load)
   123.10 m / 123.00 m x 28.00 m  x 6.90 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (4x2 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1899 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7,118 lbs / 3,228 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   264.80 ft / 80.71 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   5.91" / 150 mm   138.71 ft / 42.28 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Upper:   4.72" / 120 mm   264.80 ft / 80.71 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 10.24" / 260 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22,002 shp / 16,413 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,364 tons

Complement:
   656 - 853

Cost:
   £1.307 million / $5.227 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 890 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 5,697 tons, 39.6 %
      - Belts: 2,337 tons, 16.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,748 tons, 12.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,481 tons, 10.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 130 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 746 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,349 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,386 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 319 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,660 lbs / 9,825 Kg = 32.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.70 ft / 5.70 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.58 ft / 4.75 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Stern:      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.52 ft / 4.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,113 Square feet or 2,519 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 756 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Long Range Radio 25 tons,
Fire Control 250 tons
43 tons construction reserve.

[TexanCowboy]

10'' guns in a casement? Shells in a casement are handled by hand. That's gonna be ugly...

[miketr]

I figure that there would be a power loading of some type in there for such large projectiles.  On the other hand the rate of fire is going to be stupid slow as whatever the setup is the weapons would train fairly slowly either requiring a return to a certain point to reload and then to return to aim.  I figure one shot per gun every 2 minutes is likely with the secondary mounts.  Doing a total reconstruction to create wing turrets wouldn't be worth the effort or odds are possible; even if the design is in effect the same as the follow ons but casements instead of wing turrets.

[TexanCowboy]

Just take them out and put them in a coastal fortification. Also, you forgot to check the boxes on both, it says diesel internal combustion.

[miketr]

The weapons are what they are, these are PDN's the weapons aren't the most effective mix possible on the tonnage by a long shot.

I didn't forget the check box the machinery is to be totally replaced with diesel engines.  The engines will need to be replaced soon no matter what because of the ships age.

Reconstruction:

Pelayo 12 641 t light = 1.26 BP + $3.16
Old Engines  2,375 tons = 0.356 BP + $0.356 (SCRAP)
New Engines 746 tons = 0.746 BP + $1.492
New Armor
--Deck 790 tons = 0.790 BP +  $0.790
--Armament  181 tons = 0.181 BP + $0.181
New Weapons
--150mm 154 tons = 0.154 BP + 0.154 BP
--40mm AA 1 tons = 0.001 BP + $0.001
FC 250 tons = 0.250 BP + $0.250

Total = 2.928 BP + $5.667

Alfonso IV 12,852 t light = 1.28 BP + $3.213
Old Engines 2,300 tons = 0.345 BP + $0.345 (SCRAP)
New Engines 746 tons =  0.746 BP + $1.492
New Armor
--Deck 1086 tons = 1.086 BP +  $1.086
--Armament  463 tons = 0.463 BP + $0.463
FC 250 tons = 0.250 BP + $0.250
New Weapons
--40mm AA 1 tons = 0.001 BP + $0.001

Total 3.375 BP + $6.054


I am looking at this nets me something that can do the mission of a cruiser so the cost doesn't seam unreasonable with that expectation.

Michael

[Tanthalas]

would it be possible to replace VTEs with ICEs? I know you cant switch from VTE to Turbines but this might make me reconsider some of my own plans should it be possible.

[miketr]

http://german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/misc/hessen/history.html

Hessen was converted from VTE to Turbines when she was made into a gunnery target ship. 

I know the Soviets debated converting Rurik from VTE to Turbine before she was scrapped.  I went with Diesel as such engines would have a smaller foot print and be easier to instal compared to boiler - turbine setup.

Michael

[Tanthalas]

well that is interesting, I was under the impresion that such conversions were deamd impossible by the Nverse Powers that be.  Definetly makes me reconsider some of my own plans though (and adds a small amount of options to what I do with the old Protodreads (in my case they are all 7 or so years out of reconstruction already and I was realy diging for ways to make them usefull)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Your impression, Tanthalas, is correct. Conversions from VTE to turbines are not allowed.
Looking at the linked description, the Hessen seems to have been gutted (as in "extripated") and filled up again.
Borys

[miketr]

I had throught that the restriction had been dropped to be honest as I didn't see it listed anymore and when I ran the idea past Rocky he didn't blow it out of the water for the engine change.  It could be Mike reading too much into things.

At the same time many of the capital ships still around in the 20's and 30's received massive reconstructions.  The Italians Conte di Cavour Class and Andrea Doria Class were the most extreme and famous example.  What I am doing to these ships I would suggest isn't as extreme as what the Italian's did.  Japan heavily uprated the entire machinery units on most of its remaining battleline also.

If the mods say its not possible that fine but at the same time I do think its possible.

[Tanthalas]

after a little research I tend to agree it is possible mike, however I to will abide by whatever the moderators decide

[Sachmle]

As I've stated before..and was never really answered on, I would think that since the main problem with swapping out a VTE and in a turbine is the shaft runs are to different due to where they connect to the different engines. Therefore I'd surmise that using TE drive, allowing you to leave the original shaft runs and just connect them to the electric motors, and then placing the turbines where there is room, would allow said swap.

[miketr]

This would be to rebuild the 4 ships to a common design.  Remove the 250mm guns, casements, etc and put in a new turreted battery of 150mm guns.  The question is there the deck space for the heavy 150mm battery?  I am going to try to do a drawing, I am going to assume 25' for the 11" gun barbettes.

Alfonso IV-Pelayo (reconstruction), Iberia Battleship laid down 1899 (Engine 1922)

Displacement:
   12,750 t light; 13,243 t standard; 14,386 t normal; 15,301 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   403.87 ft / 403.54 ft x 91.86 ft x 22.64 ft (normal load)
   123.10 m / 123.00 m x 28.00 m  x 6.90 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1899 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.49" / 12.5 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,335 lbs / 1,966 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   264.80 ft / 80.71 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   5.91" / 150 mm   138.71 ft / 42.28 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Upper:   8.66" / 220 mm   264.80 ft / 80.71 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   4.72" / 120 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,002 shp / 16,413 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 16,410nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,058 tons

Complement:
   656 - 853

Cost:
   £1.006 million / $4.024 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 542 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 5,605 tons, 39.0 %
      - Belts: 2,717 tons, 18.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,256 tons, 8.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,481 tons, 10.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 151 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 746 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,807 tons, 33.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,636 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,050 tons, 7.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,281 lbs / 11,921 Kg = 39.2 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.70 ft / 5.70 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.58 ft / 4.75 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Stern:      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.52 ft / 4.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 53.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,113 Square feet or 2,519 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 2.05
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Long Range Radio 25 tons,
Fire Control 250 tons
75 tons crew accommodation
700 tons construction reserve.

[Tanthalas]

if you consider how much space the previous guns took up there might be, im looking at a reconstruction of the Rohan protodreads that would deleat the 8 9" guns midship (yes 8 of them 4 of which are in turret and Barb already) and adding a Q turret to them so their layout would be aBqy.  However I think I would need to add a section to them midships most likley.