Still toying around with a "Heavy" cruiser idea.

[Sachmle]

Prinz Adalbert, Deutsches Kaiserreich Großes Kruezer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   14,700 t light; 15,263 t standard; 17,200 t normal; 18,749 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.75 ft / 551.18 ft x 78.74 ft x 23.95 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.00 m x 24.00 m  x 7.30 m

Armament:
      8 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x2 guns), 286.60lbs / 130.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 68.34lbs / 31.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,121 lbs / 1,416 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   358.40 ft / 109.24 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   192.78 ft / 58.76 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      6.69" / 170 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 92,000 shp / 68,632 Kw = 29.19 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,486 tons

Complement:
   750 - 976

Cost:
   £3.113 million / $12.452 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 384 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 4,359 tons, 25.3 %
      - Belts: 2,224 tons, 12.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 888 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,134 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 113 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,428 tons, 19.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,079 tons, 35.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,500 tons, 14.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,970 lbs / 10,419 Kg = 81.3 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.579
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.33 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Stern:      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.43 ft / 7.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 194.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,129 Square feet or 2,892 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 623 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

250t 1912 Fire Control
25t Long Range Wireless
30t 15 2t 1913 50cm Torpedoes, 3 per tube
25t 1912 Star Shells and Large Searchlights
25t 1905 Sehendes Auge
95t Reserve Weight

[Sachmle]

And for 500t light and 0.11kts, I can add 10mm to the deck and barbettes:

Prinz Adalbert, Deutsches Kaiserreich Großes Kruezer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   15,000 t light; 15,570 t standard; 17,530 t normal; 19,098 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.73 ft / 551.18 ft x 78.74 ft x 24.11 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.00 m x 24.00 m  x 7.35 m

Armament:
     8 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x2 guns), 286.60lbs / 130.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 68.34lbs / 31.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,121 lbs / 1,416 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   358.40 ft / 109.24 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   192.78 ft / 58.76 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      7.09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 92,000 shp / 68,632 Kw = 29.08 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,529 tons

Complement:
   761 - 990

Cost:
   £3.138 million / $12.551 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 384 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 4,632 tons, 26.4 %
      - Belts: 2,225 tons, 12.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 923 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,369 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 114 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,428 tons, 19.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,106 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,530 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,693 lbs / 10,747 Kg = 83.8 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.586
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Stern:      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.10 ft / 7.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 193.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,336 Square feet or 2,911 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 624 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.96
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

250t 1912 Fire Control
25t Long Range Wireless
30t 15 2t 1913 50cm Torpedoes, 3 per tube
25t 1912 Star Shells and Large Searchlights
25t 1905 Sehendes Auge
95t Reserve Weight

[miketr]

Over armored, I would go with a 150mm belt with only 210mm guns.  My older armored cruisers have such a thick belt but they have 250mm guns.  Over all I would try to lower the defenses and increase speed to 30 knots.

Michael

[Sachmle]

Would 15cm of armor really be enough to stop a 21cm shell @ 10-12kyds? I want it to be armored against itself.

Anyway..15cm belt/50mm deck/30.5kts

Prinz Adalbert, Deutsches Kaiserreich Großes Kruezer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   15,000 t light; 15,570 t standard; 17,530 t normal; 19,098 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 551.18 ft x 78.74 ft x 24.11 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.00 m x 24.00 m  x 7.35 m

Armament:
      8 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x2 guns), 286.60lbs / 130.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 68.34lbs / 31.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,121 lbs / 1,415 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   364.50 ft / 111.10 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   186.65 ft / 56.89 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      6.30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   1.18" / 30 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.09" / 180 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 112,000 shp / 83,552 Kw = 30.49 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,529 tons

Complement:
   761 - 990

Cost:
   £3.384 million / $13.537 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 384 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 3,839 tons, 21.9 %
      - Belts: 1,737 tons, 9.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 857 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,141 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 103 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 4,173 tons, 23.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,154 tons, 35.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,530 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,004 lbs / 9,074 Kg = 70.8 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.586
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.30 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Stern:      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.43 ft / 7.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 193.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,336 Square feet or 2,911 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 627 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

250t 1912 Fire Control
25t Long Range Wireless
30t 15 2t 1913 50cm Torpedoes, 3 per tube
25t 1912 Star Shells and Large Searchlights
25t 1905 Sehendes Auge
95t Reserve Weight

[miketr]

So are you going to mount a 10" or 11" belt?  Thats what its going to take to protect the belt vs. a L55 or L60 weapon at that battle range.

[Sachmle]

So are you going to mount a 10" or 11" belt?  Thats what its going to take to protect the belt vs. a L55 or L60 weapon at that battle range.

1. L50
2. 9"/23cm belts stopped 13.5" shells at Jutland (*We don't know this cuz no Jutland here)
3. Might be me, but the above statement sounded kinda pissy. The fact that I asked if a 15cm belt would be thick enough should make it rather obvious that I don't know WHAT thickness I'd need. BigGun (*Which is guessing at best) won't run on Vista so I have no IDEA.
4. Up battle range to 12-14kyrds

[miketr]

Sam keep in mind that this is the internet there is no tone or body lang to go with.  It wasn't my intention to be pissy but to be helpful.  Sorry

1) I am R&Ding a 250mm L55 weapons, so that should be possible for you also.
2) IF we assume an L50 weapon like say the IJN 8"L50 you get the following vs. an improved KC type armor (german)

8.5"@10,000 yards, 7.5"@12,000 yards and 6.6"@14,000 yards

http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Penetration_Japan.htm

See the general naval forum where I posted a link to this for other nations.

3) I think you would want to think about battle ranges 16" yards out or more with the FC we have access to.

5.7"@16,000 yards, 5.3"@18,000 yards and 4.9"@20,000 yards

This is why I suggested a 150mm belt.

Note these all assume a WW2 fuse.

A cruiser needs speed for her key functions of scouting and screening.  29 knots I feel is too low for that mission, especially on such a large hull.  I would want to achieve at least 30 knots.  There are a number of cruiser killer designs out there with 30+ knots.  I am not sure if likely enemies of the DKB have such to be honest.  I do know that the Dutch have some fast BC's.

[Jefgte]

NUS Design Bureau is working with this concept too.
About 12000t to15000t & 170m with 9" guns.

I think that there is a place for that kind of cruiser between the 32kts / 6" guns (5000t to 9000t) & the BCs.

Useful to screen the fleet, repulse the scouts & help the BBs & BCs to do the job.

The first SS give a speed of nearly 30kts...Thats the minimun for the work with the fleet & the maximum with the 1920 techno.

Here is one of the study, a kind of "Pocket Scharnhorst"

AC, NUS 11500t laid down 1920

Displacement:
   11 500 t light; 12 021 t standard; 13 171 t normal; 14 091 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 72.18 ft x 24.16 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 22.00 m  x 7.36 m

Armament:
      9 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (3x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 771 lbs / 1 710 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   367.45 ft / 112.00 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     19.69 ft / 6.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      6.30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80 000 shp / 59 680 Kw = 29.92 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 070 tons

Complement:
   614 - 799

Cost:
   £2.813 million / $11.252 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 471 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 2 693 tons, 20.4 %
      - Belts: 1 000 tons, 7.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 667 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 954 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 71 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2 797 tons, 21.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 214 tons, 39.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 671 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 325 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14 031 lbs / 6 364 Kg = 37.8 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 26 206 Square feet or 2 435 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 131 lbs/sq ft or 638 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.65
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[Sachmle]

Mini-Death Star/Light BC (*Have to develop twin 24cm. Have triples only)

Laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   19,000 t light; 19,704 t standard; 22,540 t normal; 24,809 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   675.84 ft / 669.29 ft x 78.74 ft x 26.41 ft (normal load)
   206.00 m / 204.00 m x 24.00 m  x 8.05 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns (4x2 guns), 418.88lbs / 190.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 3,994 lbs / 1,812 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   429.79 ft / 131.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   239.50 ft / 73.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      7.68" / 195 mm
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 140,000 shp / 104,440 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 12,500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,105 tons

Complement:
   919 - 1,195

Cost:
   £4.294 million / $17.177 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 502 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 4,944 tons, 21.9 %
      - Belts: 2,043 tons, 9.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,133 tons, 5.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,633 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 135 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 5,216 tons, 23.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,938 tons, 35.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,540 tons, 15.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,031 lbs / 11,808 Kg = 61.7 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.567
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Stern:      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.10 ft / 7.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,363 Square feet or 3,471 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 663 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.46
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Sachmle]

As above w/ Triples

Displacement:
   19,000 t light; 19,730 t standard; 22,570 t normal; 24,842 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   675.84 ft / 669.29 ft x 78.74 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
   206.00 m / 204.00 m x 24.00 m  x 8.00 m

Armament:
      9 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns (3x3 guns), 418.88lbs / 190.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 4,413 lbs / 2,002 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   433.07 ft / 132.00 m   16.24 ft / 4.95 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   236.22 ft / 72.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      7.09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      3.15" / 80 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 140,000 shp / 104,440 Kw = 31.98 kts
   Range 12,500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,112 tons

Complement:
   919 - 1,196

Cost:
   £4.399 million / $17.596 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 555 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 4,783 tons, 21.2 %
      - Belts: 2,033 tons, 9.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 975 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,639 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 135 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 5,216 tons, 23.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,046 tons, 35.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,570 tons, 15.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,677 lbs / 11,647 Kg = 60.9 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.571
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Stern:      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.10 ft / 7.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 191.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,514 Square feet or 3,485 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 671 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.49
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Jefgte]

IMO,
19000t for 8 or 9 x240 at 32kts, thats too heavy
Too early engines techno.
19000t, thats really a heavy cruiser.
For that kind of cruiser, I prefer to wait better engine techno to reduce displacement & economise BPs.


Jef

[Jefgte]

AC, NUS 11000t laid down 1920

Displacement:
   11 000 t light; 11 519 t standard; 12 641 t normal; 13 539 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 71.52 ft x 23.40 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 21.80 m  x 7.13 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      3 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (1x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 771 lbs / 1 710 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   367.45 ft / 112.00 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     19.69 ft / 6.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.09" / 180 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      6.30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 76 000 shp / 56 696 Kw = 29.74 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 020 tons

Complement:
   595 - 774

Cost:
   £2.725 million / $10.901 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 471 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 2 452 tons, 19.4 %
      - Belts: 999 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 438 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 946 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2 657 tons, 21.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 069 tons, 40.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 641 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13 634 lbs / 6 184 Kg = 36.7 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.87 ft / 5.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 25 968 Square feet or 2 413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 131 lbs/sq ft or 637 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.61
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[Guinness]

To me a requirement of this sort of ship is the ability to outrun reasonably sized battlecruisers. In that respect Jef's ship is deficient IMHO. the Q turret will also present challenges in machinery arrangement. The belt is way too short even for 29 knots. To me this seems an example of false economy.

Then again, I'm the one that dreamed up the slightly over the top Wheelers :)

[Tanthalas]

To me a requirement of this sort of ship is the ability to outrun reasonably sized battlecruisers. In that respect Jef's ship is deficient IMHO. the Q turret will also present challenges in machinery arrangement. The belt is way too short even for 29 knots. To me this seems an example of false economy.

Then again, I'm the one that dreamed up the slightly over the top Wheelers :)

I like Rohans CCs beter than the Whealers (mostly because I came up with them but meh).  Not as fast but still "Fast Enough" and heavier armor/guns.  That said I think 19K is to heavy for the type, your shooting for 16-17K IMHO

[Jefgte]

I just test Guinness, the possibility to built 30kts  AC in a 170m SW.
If the 170m ship could'nt obtain 30kts with correct armament, I don't built her.

Actually, with the technos, it's very hard & perhaps impossible...


Jef