New New Swiss ships for 1918

[Desertfox]

First up, Furutaka clones, at least 2 will be built.




Olympia class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,500 t light; 7,867 t standard; 9,593 t normal; 10,973 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 57.00 ft x 22.50 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 17.37 m  x 6.86 m

Armament:
      6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 254.00lbs / 115.21kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,788 lbs / 811 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   370.00 ft / 112.78 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.20" / 30 mm      1.20" / 30 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.20" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 64,358 shp / 48,011 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,950nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,106 tons

Complement:
   484 - 630

Cost:
   £1.431 million / $5.725 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 225 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 1,250 tons, 13.0 %
      - Belts: 614 tons, 6.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 130 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 457 tons, 4.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 49 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,398 tons, 25.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,477 tons, 36.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,093 tons, 21.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,768 lbs / 4,884 Kg = 42.1 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.77 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (40 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.63 ft / 5.68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,596 Square feet or 1,913 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 490 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

I like her, except she needs capital ship fire control.

[Desertfox]

But she's a 7,000 ton cruiser not a 40,000 ton battleship.

[Guinness]

Yes, but 8" guns in turrets on barbettes mean she's an armored cruiser, not a protected cruiser, and hence a capital ship for our purposes.

EDIT: And I'll freely stipulate we need a table or something to make what sort of ship needs what clear. If I get some free time, I'll work on that.

[Walter]

First up, Furutaka clones, at least 2 will be built.

Well, if it a clone, you need to start out with 6 single turrets first and in the 1930s you will need to replace them with three twins. :)

[Desertfox]

Yes, but 8" guns in turrets on barbettes mean she's an armored cruiser, not a protected cruiser, and hence a capital ship for our purposes.

I think something's wrong when a 12x6" gunned cruiser can use cruiser FC but a 6x8" gunned cruiser can't. Small 8" cruisers are being heavily penalized. I think FC weight should be based on ship weight or gun size, and be more flexible, than just 3 levels. Say 14" guns require a 140ton FC, 10" -100ton FC, 6" - 60 tons, and so on...

Well, if it a clone, you need to start out with 6 single turrets first and in the 1930s you will need to replace them with three twins.

Well this IS her ancestor... ;) Not a true clone, but pretty close...

Advantage class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5,900 t light; 6,311 t standard; 8,106 t normal; 9,541 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 20.70 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 16.46 m  x 6.31 m

Armament:
      7 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns in single mounts, 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,920 lbs / 871 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 230
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 38,635 shp / 28,822 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,700nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,230 tons

Complement:
   426 - 555

Cost:
   £0.624 million / $2.495 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 240 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 1,034 tons, 12.8 %
      - Belts: 607 tons, 7.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 33 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 350 tons, 4.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,540 tons, 19.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,945 tons, 36.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,206 tons, 27.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,843 lbs / 4,918 Kg = 42.4 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 12.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (35 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.75 ft / 5.41 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,917 Square feet or 1,757 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 455 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.46
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Sachmle]

So you're building short, fat, deep Furutaka's? K.

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 57.00 ft x 22.50 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 17.37 m  x 6.86 m

http://www.warshipsww2.eu/lode.php?language=E&period=&idtrida=181
Has 182m waterline, 188m overall, 11.9m beam, 4.5m draught.

I don't have a problem with the design, other than I think it's under gunned. Just wouldn't call it a Furutaka clone.

[Desertfox]

Well the rules prohibit the actual dimensions, and getting Furutaka speed this early is pretty hard to do. Yeah it's undergunned, but tehre's only so much you can do with 7.5k.

[TexanCowboy]

Fast, small ships can get down to 12:1.

[Tanthalas]

not a bad CA, to bad she is going to get smacked around by all the 9, 10, and 12" CAs runing around the Nverse.

[miketr]

If you are going for a swarm fleet it might work just accept the fact that you are going to take losses.  Its an interesting design on a light displacement.

Michael

[Guinness]

Measurements here aren't what Whitley's Cruisers of World War II has for Furutaka:

L: 607.5ft/185.16m overall, 595ft/181.35m waterline
B: 54.167ft/16.5m
D: 14.75ft/4.49m (mean)

Not sure where 11.9m for the beam came from on that site, but I'd be willing to take Whitley's word for it.

So using waterline length, L/B is 10.98, using overall is 11.22. Beam to Draught ratio is 3.67.

This mod would have no problem with a ship built to these ratios, although like all Japanese ships of this era my guess is they were both topheavy and had hulls that were a little on the weak side of average.

Foxy's ship does neatly fit in our type 2 DD and Furutaka wouldn't, so there's a reason to build her shorter.

[Desertfox]

Of all my potential enemies, only the CSA Wheelers and the DKB Moltkes can both catch and sink these ships, and those ships are twice the size of these. The 8 Austrian cruisers are about the same so a fight with those would be a toss up.

[TexanCowboy]

What? They have way more armour, 2 or 4 as many guns... and I'm your enemy? And don't forget the Aquero's, the Demarce IV's, and the secret design for the Knoxvilles.

[Desertfox]

The 4 newer ones do have 4 more but lighter guns, but have less armor, and a knot less speed. The Arquero's are even bigger than the other two ships mentioned. If the frogs are involved I have bigger problems. And how can I consider the Knoxville's if I haven't seen them?  ;) And I consider everyone a potential enemy... (thought only the nearby ones where considered for this comparision)