Carrier Conversion

[TexanCowboy]

I think I'll be going with the 1st as a floatplane carrier.

[maddox]

The first usable torpedo bomber. Those can carry a 1000 lbs torpedo.  That's a small 16" torpedo.

And no, those can't take off with that load from a fly off foredeck on a small ship. As floatplane, it works a lot better.

[TexanCowboy]

A floatplane Cuckoo. Yeah, I think thats what I'll be doing.

[maddox]

Here we see the birth of the CSA floatplane tender, something that was becoming for a while now.     :)  :)  :)

[TexanCowboy]

Can I have a carrier built to mercantile standerds, AKA, I was going to have it built as a depot ship, but I changed the design?

[maddox]

SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES

Mercantile Standards/Auxiliaries

A ship in government service may be built to mercantile standards if armament and armor take up no more than 2% of the ship's weight at normal displacement.  Such ships could include colliers, transports, survey ships, and others.

Tenders, as described below, can not be built to mercantile standards

In this case, the cash and BP cost of construction is quartered.  This also pertains to upkeep, future repair, refit, and scrapping of the vessel.  The time required to build, refit, repair, or scrap the ship remains unchanged, however.

Moderators have may require a ship to be built to normal military standards if they believe that the intent of a design is to produce a cheap warship.

I believe this answers.

[TexanCowboy]

Can I build it to tender spec?

[maddox]

There is a small semantic situation involved with "Seaplane tender".

For now, Tenders are for ships purposes. But I myself can see a small change in wording being very functional.

In other words, it's possible that 1918 will bring that change.

Tenders

A tender is an auxiliary which can supply all the amenities of a port, to some degree.  It generally carries accommodation space and amenities for crews of small vessels, workshops, warehouses, stores, and fuel.  Up to half of the weight of these facilties may be simmed as extra fuel bunkerage; the remainder may only be simmed as miscellaneous weight.  Regardless, it all counts as functional miscelleneous weight for the purposes of costing.

For every thousand tonnes of facilities aboard the tender, four thousand tonnes of shipping may use the tender as their "port". 

Tenders may conduct overhauls, basic refits, and basic repairs to ships so long as the work would not require a drydock.  If the tender has twelve thousand tonnnes or more of facilities aboard, it is large enough to undertake refurbishments as well.

The BP cost of a tender is like any ship built to merchantile standards - 0.25 * (Light Displacement - Non-functional miscellaneous weight).  The cash cost, however, is not quartered.

[Sachmle]

I can see if for Storyline purposes that a 'merchant vessel' was bought and converted into a seaplane tender then the cost to 'build' this seaplane tender should only be whatever material was 'added' to the 'merchant ship' which was already in existence. But since we pay no $/BP to build/upkeep merchant ships per se ( We all have a merchant marine to one degree or another, but never pay for it.) how does one figure this? SS a generic merchant ship, figure out what needs added/subtracted/moved to make a seaplane tender out of it, pay for those materials, and call it a day? I see this as one more reason a 'merchant marine' cost IS needed or at least that 'generic merchant ship' folder that was floated about for N4. Then you'd just pay $X to 'buy' the merchant ship.

[maddox]

Sachmle,  the merchant marine a country has is a part of the IC. Revenue generators.

If a merchant vessel is included in the books of the marine, upkeep has to be payed accordingly.
For most of us it's not even a blip on the screen.
But a floatplane tender, or a (blimp)carrier is a pure military vessel, no other use possible... And then it's "see the rules".

[Sachmle]

Correct a seaplane/blimp/whatever tender are military ships, and must be built by the rules, if being built from SCRATCH. However if Nation A buys a merchant ship that's already in service from "Smith Shipping Co." and CONVERTS said ship to a tender, how does one pay for it? You didn't BUILD the ship, so you don't pay building costs, you only CONVERTED it, so do you only pay for the conversion materials and then regular upkeep from then out?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Play the game, not the rules. IMO converting a merchant to a tender should cost the same as building from scratch.
Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

First, see here for carrier design guidelines.  It speaks to costs associated with conversions.  This has been languishing in the Naval Discussion area without being added to the rules - now that Tex and I and others are playing with carriers, it has been moved to the Rules.

I think I'm okay with one merchant hull being purchased and converted.  I would suggest:

-Sim the merchant.  It must conform to the guidelines for merchies, and the Moderators should be satisfied that its characteristics are typical for the period. 

-Cost for the merchant hull is full (military) cash value if in service less than a year (because it's a real pain in the arse for the owner to find a replacement on short notice); there is no BP cost.  For additional every year in service, deduct five percent from the cost.  Time to locate, purchase, and re-design the ship is six months.

-Undertake a full reconstruction.  Full BP and cash costs are paid - as if the hull were mil-spec - because all the new stuff is mil-spec.

If you want to convert more than one hull, expect to pay more - ship owners will get wind that the CSN is looking for specific hulls.

Does this seem reasonable?

[TexanCowboy]

Yeah. That sounds fine.

[TexanCowboy]

Ok, here is my merchant. It is a liner, chosen for its high speed. The cost for me to purchase it is $10.1.

Unity, CSA First Class High Speed Liner laid down 1915

Displacement:
   11,719 t light; 12,043 t standard; 16,205 t normal; 19,535 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 22.86 m  x 7.62 m

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 73,024 shp / 54,476 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 22.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,492 tons

Complement:
   717 - 933

Cost:
   £1.160 million / $4.639 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 2,766 tons, 17.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,953 tons, 24.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,486 tons, 27.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,000 tons, 30.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,566 lbs / 7,968 Kg = 162.6 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.80 ft / 7.86 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.42 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.42 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.42 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.42 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.17 ft / 5.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,788 Square feet or 2,674 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 461 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Macroni-25 tons
Extra Boats-425 tons