Second Caliphate Speculative Design Studies

[Guinness]

Lately I've spent some time reading up on a couple of sets of ships: the US "battlescouts" of the mid-teens, and the RN's design series that culminated in G3 and N3. Some of those ideas find expression in this ship:

The armor is different: machinery spaces are completely unarmored. This is on purpose, based on a few ideas:
1. This ship is mainly meant to threaten ships in it's weight class and smaller
2. It is expected that when in battle this ship would mostly face the enemy on the forward quarter, where the armored box around the forward magazines and armament would offer some protection for equipment behind it. This also justifies the all forward armament and only 4 main guns.
3. This ship is not designed to operate in the battleline.

Please note that I'm unlikely to build this for the OE, but I went ahead and designed it for the OE, just to see how it came out. The wisdom of the OE building anything bigger than ~6000 tons right now is questionable. Indeed I foresee few ships bigger than 1500 tons any time in the near future.

Nonetheless, this is an interesting concept to me, so I figured I'd share.

Cruiser Concept, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 14,511 t standard; 15,961 t normal; 17,120 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   626.65 ft / 623.36 ft x 72.18 ft x 23.88 ft (normal load)
   191.00 m / 190.00 m x 22.00 m  x 7.28 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 665.80lbs / 302.00kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,666 lbs / 1,663 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   114.83 ft / 35.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 28 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.57" / 40 mm

   - Armour deck: 0.67" / 17 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 104,000 shp / 77,584 Kw = 31.31 kts
   Range 6,620nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,609 tons

Complement:
   709 - 923

Cost:
   £3.879 million / $15.517 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 464 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 2,513 tons, 15.7 %
      - Belts: 1,098 tons, 6.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 875 tons, 5.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 378 tons, 2.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 161 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 3,875 tons, 24.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,698 tons, 42.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,961 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,413 lbs / 8,352 Kg = 27.5 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.80 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.56 ft / 8.40 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m (24.28 ft / 7.40 m before break)
      - Stern:      16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.16 ft / 7.36 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 205.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,534 Square feet or 2,837 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 669 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Wireless
75t: Facilities for 3 Aircraft
50t: Flag Facilities
50t: Reserve

Note: Armored belt and deck covers magazine spaces only, forming an armored box around them. The armored deck works out to be about 85mm thick, or possibly 60mm above the magazine spaces, and a 20mm deck over the machinery.

[Guinness]

Same general idea, but 1500 tons bigger gets 2 more guns. I imagine this being arranged in a pyramid before the bridge, though I am wondering about maybe using some casemates. :)

Armor concept is the same: either only covering the magazines, or side belts only over the magazines, and a 20mm or so deck over the machinery spaces.

Cruiser Concept Bigger, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   16,000 t light; 16,622 t standard; 18,192 t normal; 19,448 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   646.31 ft / 643.04 ft x 75.46 ft x 25.23 ft (normal load)
   197.00 m / 196.00 m x 23.00 m  x 7.69 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x2 guns), 665.80lbs / 302.00kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,998 lbs / 2,267 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   134.51 ft / 41.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 32 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.57" / 40 mm

   - Armour deck: 0.67" / 17 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 112,000 shp / 83,552 Kw = 31.34 kts
   Range 6,620nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,826 tons

Complement:
   783 - 1,018

Cost:
   £4.567 million / $18.270 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 632 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 3,081 tons, 16.9 %
      - Belts: 1,231 tons, 6.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,266 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 408 tons, 2.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 176 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 4,173 tons, 22.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,664 tons, 42.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,193 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,786 lbs / 9,428 Kg = 31.0 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.52 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.60 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.22 ft / 8.60 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m (24.93 ft / 7.60 m before break)
      - Stern:      17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.85 ft / 7.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 206.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,930 Square feet or 3,059 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 712 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.83
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Wireless
75t: Facilities for 3 Aircraft
50t: Flag Facilities
50t: Reserve

Note: Armored belt and deck covers magazine spaces only, forming an armored box around them. The armored deck works out to be about 85mm thick, or possibly 60mm above the magazine spaces, and a 20mm deck over the machinery.

[Guinness]

This is probably the ultimate expression of this idea. 4x40.5cm guns. There is a thin armored deck over the entire ship, but substantially thicker over the magazine spaces. Torpedo attack would still be a major concern, given the lack of torpedo protection. Possibly with turbo-electric propulsion...

Cruiser Concept 40.5cm guns, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   23,000 t light; 23,983 t standard; 25,941 t normal; 27,507 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   711.94 ft / 708.66 ft x 85.30 ft x 28.34 ft (normal load)
   217.00 m / 216.00 m x 26.00 m  x 8.64 m

Armament:
      4 - 15.94" / 405 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2,026.91lbs / 919.39kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9,111 lbs / 4,133 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 37 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.57" / 40 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.77" / 45 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 140,000 shp / 104,440 Kw = 31.62 kts
   Range 6,620nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,525 tons

Complement:
   1,021 - 1,328

Cost:
   £6.805 million / $27.219 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,143 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 4,792 tons, 18.5 %
      - Belts: 1,678 tons, 6.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,534 tons, 5.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,357 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 223 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 5,216 tons, 20.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,399 tons, 43.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,941 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,375 lbs / 13,778 Kg = 15.0 x 15.9 " / 405 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.84
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.40 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.20 ft / 8.90 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   27.89 ft / 8.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      26.57 ft / 8.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m (25.92 ft / 7.90 m before break)
      - Stern:      18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.72 ft / 7.84 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 206.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 41,406 Square feet or 3,847 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 866 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.83
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Wireless
75t: Facilities for 3 Aircraft
50t: Flag Facilities
50t: Reserve

Note: Armored belt and deck covers magazine spaces only, forming an armored box around them. The armored deck works out to be about 120mm thick above the magazines and 20mm thick over the rest of the ship.

EDIT: fixed the secondary battery armor

[TexanCowboy]

Interesting.....

Amongst your possible oppnents, only Ukraine and maybe Iberia has something comparable. Ukraine has 9x12 guns arranged Nelson, and 30 knots. I'm not sure what the stats on the Iberian vessel are. The question is "Do you need it?"

[Kaiser Kirk]

Lately I've spent some time reading up on a couple of sets of ships: the US "battlescouts" of the mid-teens, and the RN's design series that culminated in G3 and N3. Some of those ideas find expression in this ship:

Hmm, somewhat ..strange...concepts. The results seems to be something Jackie Fisher would like.
I find the premise that one will be fighting from the forward arc remarkably aggressive.  What happens if outnumbered and seeking to retreat?  Or shell splinters carry away the hydraulic lines leading to the barbettes, or riddle the bow with holes and rob the vessel of speed?  Or a shell simply does fit in that window between the forward occlusions and find it's way to the thinly armored boiler rooms, producing a boom and filling the region with scalding superheated steam?

[Guinness]

Iberia and Austria are the primary planned possible opponents, with an eye also turned toward the DKB, Russia and France.

Certainly these ships are (mostly) unsuited to battleline use in a conventional sense. With their speed they might be useful as a fast wing to a battleline, or as a way to break up the enemy's screen. They would be useful in commerce warfare, I expect. It would take larger ships to defeat them in single combat, although they might emerge substantially damaged and "mission killed". So they are fundamentally battlecruisers in the conventional sense.

The advantage is the relative fighting power for the size. And yes, that's very much like something Fisher might like.

As far as their protection: I think the largest is the most survivable, and would be a tenable design if extensive internal compartmentalization was included, so would almost certainly need turbo-electric machinery. Over the machinery spaces, I'm imagining an arched protective deck in the style of old-fashioned protected cruisers.

So all that said: should the Ottomans build some of these? The truth is: I don't know. The current Ottoman strategy is one of small units; submarines and small torpedo boats with the hope of ambushing larger enemy units, or at the very least denying them key sections of the considerable Ottoman coastline. This combined with a fairly steep investment in coastal artillery would at least make for a hard target from the sea.

Still, I can imagine that a small number of ships such as these could be used to sweep up and down sections of coast, such as the Red Sea, provided that the smaller Ottoman units have prevented wide-spread mining. They might also present enough of a threat to encourage the enemy to move their major units into the danger zones in the Aegean, Red Sea, Arabian Sea, or the Levant where Ottoman TBs and subs could take the toll. Finally, the smaller of the designs are probably too big to be flotilla leaders, but at times could certainly backstop and stiffen torpedo boat and destroyer attacks against superior forces, using much the same strategy the Swiss have always promoted.

So it's an interesting idea to chew on. I'm stuck in bed this weekend, so I might also cook up a 21cm armed version of the 4x28cm design and see how that looks.

[Guinness]

Here's a 21cm armed version. The armor concept is similar: just a 20mm sloped deck over most of the ship, but a much thicker deck over the magazine and fire control spaces.

Cruiser Concept 21cm, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 14,540 t standard; 15,965 t normal; 17,105 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   626.65 ft / 623.36 ft x 72.18 ft x 23.88 ft (normal load)
   191.00 m / 190.00 m x 22.00 m  x 7.28 m

Armament:
     9 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (3x3 guns), 238.10lbs / 108.00kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft
     2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,146 lbs / 1,427 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 31 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.66" / 220 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.57" / 40 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 8.66" / 220 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 107,000 shp / 79,822 Kw = 31.52 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,565 tons

Complement:
   709 - 923

Cost:
   £3.883 million / $15.532 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 447 tons, 2.8 %
   Armour: 2,747 tons, 17.2 %
      - Belts: 924 tons, 5.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 926 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 778 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 118 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,987 tons, 25.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,369 tons, 39.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,965 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,858 lbs / 8,100 Kg = 63.2 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.80 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.56 ft / 8.40 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.26 ft / 7.70 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.08 ft / 4.90 m (24.61 ft / 7.50 m before break)
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.26 ft / 7.40 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 207.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,534 Square feet or 2,837 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 635 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.76
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Wireless
75t: Facilities for 3 Aircraft
50t: Flag Facilities
50t: Reserve

Note: 20mm sloped armored deck throughout ship, except over magazines, where the deck is 85mm. Armored belt covers only magazine spaces.

[TexanCowboy]

I'd certainly include protection for the engines. One good hit on the engines and your ship, built around speed, is slowed, and that's not good. Perhaps lower the belt to 6'' (enough to counter 8'' shells) and do that? Also, end armour to catch splinters might be a good idea....

[Kaiser Kirk]

It would take larger ships to defeat them in single combat, although they might emerge substantially damaged and "mission killed".

Ahh, well there is where I disagree :)
They are, however interesting vessels and how it could game out may disprove me.

Edit : On the last, 9x21cm.. don't care for it, and offers little over a conventional armor layout.  I don't see how "all amidships" is a good main battery arrangement, but that may be an error, still the pyramid arrangement means only 6 can fire forward anyhow.

[Guinness]

Yeah, the 21cm is sort of silly. I wouldn't want to ship the 15cm guns at all. Instead, maybe something more conventional, like this. I suspect this ship is going to be a lot more popular, particularly since I managed to work in a torpedo bulkhead. Sans torpedo protection, I can substitute triple mounts for a total of 12 guns on more or less the same ship. This feels like something the DKB would build.  :P

Cruiser Concept 21cm Conventional, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 14,457 t standard; 15,876 t normal; 17,011 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   620.10 ft / 616.80 ft x 72.18 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   189.01 m / 188.00 m x 22.00 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
     6 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (3x2 guns), 238.10lbs / 108.00kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     2 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (1x2 guns), 238.10lbs / 108.00kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline aft
     2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft
     2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,935 lbs / 878 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   546.26 ft / 166.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 136 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.18" / 30 mm   546.26 ft / 166.50 m   27.56 ft / 8.40 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   4.72" / 120 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 107,000 shp / 79,822 Kw = 31.51 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,554 tons

Complement:
   706 - 919

Cost:
   £3.514 million / $14.058 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 286 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 3,517 tons, 22.1 %
      - Belts: 1,411 tons, 8.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 658 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armament: 487 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 880 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 80 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,987 tons, 25.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,761 tons, 36.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,876 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,188 lbs / 9,157 Kg = 71.4 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m (23.62 ft / 7.20 m before break)
      - Stern:      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.56 ft / 7.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 136.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 200.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,212 Square feet or 2,807 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 586 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.65
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Wireless
75t: Facilities for 3 Aircraft
50t: Flag Facilities
50t: Reserve

[Carthaginian]

Bit odd to sim the main battery separated like that... but hey, it happens. ;)

A very nice ship on the tonnage- not a standout at any one thing, but will be a good 'multi-role' flagship for the Ottomans.

[Guinness]

The three forward one aft arrangement is on purpose. It is a little different, but Sam did a similar 15cm armed ship recently. The main gain is only one gun is superfiring, enhancing stability.

So there'd be 3 turrets forward, either in a pyramid arrangement, or C overfiring A and B (whatever looked better if I drew it), and a single X aft, which would loom over the lowered quarterdeck, similar to the Littorios. I figure the aircraft would hang out on the quarterdeck with a catapult. The quarterdeck would be 30 meters long.

EDIT: not that the Ottomans have any aircraft or naval aviation tech...

[Guinness]

Assuming the Ottomans acquire the necessary techs, develop the right gun mounts, etc., this is the working draft for the new flagship of the Ottoman fleet. Arrangement and armor is similar to NelRod/G3/N3, etc.:

Fast BB (Nelrod Arrangement), Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   25,000 t light; 26,022 t standard; 28,040 t normal; 29,654 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   718.50 ft / 715.22 ft x 87.76 ft x 29.50 ft (normal load)
   219.00 m / 218.00 m x 26.75 m  x 8.99 m

Armament:
      9 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 893.97lbs / 405.50kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9,049 lbs / 4,104 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.92" / 252 mm   503.61 ft / 153.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.54" / 90 mm   211.61 ft / 64.50 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      0.79" / 20 mm   487.20 ft / 148.50 m   32.48 ft / 9.90 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   2.76" / 70 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   2.76" / 70 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp / 89,520 Kw = 30.07 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,632 tons

Complement:
   1,083 - 1,408

Cost:
   £6.621 million / $26.483 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,103 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 7,927 tons, 28.3 %
      - Belts: 3,704 tons, 13.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 461 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armament: 1,961 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,566 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 235 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,471 tons, 15.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,050 tons, 39.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,040 tons, 10.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,429 lbs / 16,524 Kg = 42.1 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.95 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.26 ft / 7.70 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   16.08 ft / 4.90 m (23.95 ft / 7.30 m before break)
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.37 ft / 7.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 42,995 Square feet or 3,994 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 170 lbs/sq ft or 830 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Wireless
75t: Facilities for 3 Aircraft
50t: Flag Facilities
50t: Reserve

Armor Scheme:
60mm deck throughout
280mm x 60m x 5m (1862t) belt over magazine spaces
170mm x 93.5m x 5m (1559t) belt over machinery spaces
90mm x 3m tall belt over rest of ship

[Carthaginian]

Hmmm... how's that secondary arrangement gonna work?
Wouldn't they be in the path of swing for the main guns? If they are all on deck level, then they should probably be "On Side, All Aft" to make sure that they are far enough back to get them out of the way.

[Guinness]

SS works either way. I was going to wait until I illustrated it to finalize that, but I imagine that 4 turrets would be grouped around the (fairly compact) superstructure, with a 5th overlooking the lowered quarterdeck where the flying thingies hang out.

The only difficulty will be getting the forward pair out of the blast arc of the main battery. I've helped myself there a little by mounting them in relatively well armored turrets though.

I've also considered 4 mounts instead of 5, with a pair alongside the superstructure, and a superfiring pair aft. The broadside is the same, but for secondaries I think I'd prefer the extra pair of barrels.