Economy Battleship

[Sachmle]

Self imposed 35K light tonnage limit. The TDS goes from the bilge to the weather deck and the side is armoured from 2.5m below the waterline to the weather deck. I realize that without the normal casemates I don't NEED the upper belt and could probably use that weight for other things, but overall I'm happy with the whole side being armoured. Whatcha think?

Ersatz Padderborn-Delbrock, Brandenburger Schlachtschiff laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 36,533 t standard; 39,331 t normal; 41,569 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.77 ft / 715.22 ft x 110.11 ft x 30.02 ft (normal load)
   220.00 m / 218.00 m x 33.56 m  x 9.15 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,653.47lbs / 750.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (10x2 guns), 68.34lbs / 31.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,645 lbs / 6,643 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   6 - 23.6" / 600 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   465.06 ft / 141.75 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   250.16 ft / 76.25 m   10.53 ft / 3.21 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   465.06 ft / 141.75 m   10.53 ft / 3.21 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   465.06 ft / 141.75 m   48.20 ft / 14.69 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      13.8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:         -      0.98" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 4.13" / 105 mm, Conning tower: 14.96" / 380 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 59,999 shp / 44,759 Kw = 23.51 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,036 tons

Complement:
   1,396 - 1,815

Cost:
   £6.180 million / $24.721 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,848 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 16,237 tons, 41.3 %
      - Belts: 6,626 tons, 16.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,632 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armament: 3,273 tons, 8.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,332 tons, 11.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 373 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,235 tons, 5.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,180 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,331 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     63,303 lbs / 28,714 Kg = 37.8 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 12.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 17.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.582
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.55 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.43 ft / 8.97 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   18.73 ft / 5.71 m
      - Mid (60 %):      18.73 ft / 5.71 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   18.73 ft / 5.71 m
      - Stern:      18.73 ft / 5.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.80 ft / 6.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 56,650 Square feet or 5,263 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 190 lbs/sq ft or 927 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t 1912 Fire Control
25t 1905 Sehendes Auge
25t Long range Markoni
36t 18 2t 60cm 1913 torpedoes
14t 1912 starshells for the 88mm guns
10t Large Searchlights
140t Reserve weight

[The Rock Doctor]

From the thread title, I was expecting something in the 20,000 t range.

Seems like a solid all-round design. 

[Sachmle]

Different economies, different limits.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I think it can pared down further:
- instead of using what SS came up with, you can manualy input a freeboard of 17 ft.
- the Armoured Deck can be cut down to 3" or 3,5"
- MB - 14" is enough

Otherwise I don't see much wrong about it ...

Borys

[mentat]

Well - not very cheap - but very tough

Is the modest speed OK for your purposes ? - I think the trend is in the other direction ...

[Guinness]

I find the secondary battery layout very... modern.

Most navies didn't adopt superfiring secondaries on battleships until DP armament came about. Of course, cramming 5 twin mounts per side in without superfiring is probably tough too.

I personally have been thinking about developing a triple 5.5" mount just for the purpose.

[Jefgte]

Could I made 2BBs
17500t with 3T2x340

?

[Sachmle]

Wanna know what's weird? A 5x2x35cm version weighs the same, has the same broadside, takes more punishment, will have a marginally higher rate of fire (2.1 rounds/min instead of 2) and puts more rounds in the air increasing chances of actually hitting. The only downside is 1 more big hole in the deck, a Q magazine near the boilers, and less range on the 35cm compared to 38cm. Now I don't know which one to build.

[Jefgte]

1x35000t or 2x 17500t

17500T-2T3x340, Peru BB laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   17 500 t light; 18 332 t standard; 19 408 t normal; 20 269 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 85.83 ft x 24.68 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 26.16 m  x 7.52 m

Armament:
      6 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7 841 lbs / 3 557 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   331.36 ft / 101.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   203.41 ft / 62.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
     22.97 ft / 7.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.72" / 120 mm   331.36 ft / 101.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   331.36 ft / 101.00 m   24.44 ft / 7.45 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      12.6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 12.60" / 320 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 36 000 shp / 26 856 Kw = 22.64 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 937 tons

Complement:
   821 - 1 068

Cost:
   £3.246 million / $12.985 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 980 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 7 627 tons, 39.3 %
      - Belts: 3 252 tons, 16.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 472 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 1 215 tons, 6.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2 491 tons, 12.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 196 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1 341 tons, 6.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 203 tons, 37.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 907 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29 509 lbs / 13 385 Kg = 24.6 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (30 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.97 ft / 5.17 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 34 200 Square feet or 3 177 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 757 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Six guns is not so good from gunnery point of view.
Borys

[Jefgte]

Not 6 guns
--- but 12 x340

[Sachmle]

Yes Jef, if you count them both together. What Borys was referring to is spotting fall of shot and 6 guns is minimum for that and is still lacking.

[Walter]

You won't have that problem if you weld them together. :D
Something like Repulnown. ;D

[mentat]

the 2 small BBs are much more in tune with the Economy theme - but I'd go for 8 x 340mm (323) and 25 knots as a much more capable and worthwhile ship   :) - still possible for 20k tons?