Rohan ships 1916, 1917, & Beyond

[Sachmle]

Radar's only 25t, so unless you've got 2 you've got some extra wiggle room.

[Tanthalas]

Radar's only 25t, so unless you've got 2 you've got some extra wiggle room.

Damn new I forgot somthing... oh well another 25 tons reserve I supose

[Borys]

Underarmoured - otherwise I like her a lot.
As to the piccie - Emil turretseems to be too far aft.
Borys

[Tanthalas]

Underarmoured - otherwise I like her a lot.
As to the piccie - Emil turretseems to be too far aft.
Borys

I agree its definetly lacking in the armor catagory, initialy I intended to use the 5.25" unified CL/DD/secondary for its main guns... but it isnt finished yet so I had to go with 6" instead thus it lost a bit of armor and some range.  as for the Pic I actualy made a mistake when I initialy did the SS on her and decided to keep it (it was suposed to be 15% Forecastle and 15% Quarterdeck instead I set it at 20% and 10%)  the aft most gun sits dead on at 10% (it looks a little odd Ill admit but its dead on where it should be)

[Guinness]

I don't have such an issue with the after turret cluster (though the SS probably ought to be "centerline ends, majority aft"). My question is the after funnel: is the after boiler room aft of the turbine spaces?

Also, I'm not sure that 1.5" AA guns need hoists. Even the 1.1" and 40mm AA guns designed onto US ships of the late 30's and WW2 era didn't have hoists. Clips were all hand passed. I believe that was true of RN Pom-Poms as well.

[Tanthalas]

I don't have such an issue with the after turret cluster (though the SS probably ought to be "centerline ends, majority aft"). My question is the after funnel: is the after boiler room aft of the turbine spaces?

Also, I'm not sure that 1.5" AA guns need hoists. Even the 1.1" and 40mm AA guns designed onto US ships of the late 30's and WW2 era didn't have hoists. Clips were all hand passed. I believe that was true of RN Pom-Poms as well.

It can be swaped around however, it will work Majority Forward, Aft, or distributed.  As to the 1.5s not needing hoists... I didnt want to hear that (every one of my ships mounting the 1.5" twin has them in hoists so the Asfolaths, the CCs, and these CLs)

and last but not least, the funnel uhm balance? I had them both forward and didnt like it so I moved it aft with vague notions about a single boiler used for electrical generation or somthing

[Guinness]

I guess the Rohirim are just lazy :)

I don't know this, but I suspect that large caliber autocannon didn't get hoists because it was just quicker to hand pass the ammunition when you needed it. My guess is it was difficult to design a hoist that could keep up without breaking down a lot.

Some guns were chain fed anyway, so you wouldn't need a hoist in the classic sense, but many were also clip fed, and a clip of say 40mm ammunition was sized just right for passing it around without wearing anyone out too much.

At least, that's my guess.

[Tanthalas]

IDK I was operating on the understanding that twin mounts had to have hoists when I did it initialy, I can see what kind of Diferance (if any) it makes swaping them for just deck mounts.  it wouldnt be to hard to change all 3 SS files.

[Guinness]

I don't think hoists are required on mounts for guns under 3 pounders (57mm).

Really, when we're talking about the light cruiser architecture tech, we're referring to the primary armament, or primary and secondary in non-uniform main armament ships (ie, a ship with 6in and 4in guns, etc). Anything that is a machine gun or an autocannon certainly shouldn't need a hoist to be mounted in a twin mount.

[Jefgte]

Nice global concept but...

The studying & the building of the hull is certainly hard.
- Boilers rooms (the second funnel is in the place of the aft CT - ?)
- Turbines rooms
- Magasines of th 3rd turrets
- Ventilators.

Not easy, I think  ???


Jef

[Tanthalas]

After some intensive thought and study I decided Guinness is right and we are over doing our DDs so I reworked the 1916 class DDs Rohan is curently building this is unless there are any Major objections to be considerd the Final production version of this ship

DD1601, Rohan Destroyer laid down 1916

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,044 t standard; 1,269 t normal; 1,449 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   335.00 ft / 330.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 11.10 ft (normal load)
   102.11 m / 100.58 m x 9.14 m  x 3.38 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
   Weight of broadside 229 lbs / 104 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,138 shp / 18,753 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 2,971nm at 18.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 404 tons

Complement:
   106 - 138

Cost:
   £0.241 million / $0.964 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 29 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 630 tons, 49.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 284 tons, 22.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 269 tons, 21.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 48 tons, 3.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     259 lbs / 118 Kg = 5.7 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.83

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.404
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 85
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.34 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.50 ft / -0.76 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (33 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.64 ft / 3.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 64.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,109 Square feet or 568 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 59 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.87
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

48 tons Misc. Weight
25 tons Wireless
12 tons 6XTorpedos (no reloads)
  4 tons 12XDeapth Charges (stern Racks)
  2 tons Crew Comfort (Coffee pots, and stuff)
  5 tons Reserve

Trial Speed: 32 knots

Ranges
617 @ 31 knots
850 @ 28 knots
2250 @ 20 knots
2971 @ 18 knots

[Tanthalas]

Since Everyone is talking about what to do with Various old ships I decided to post up what im considering doing with Rohans 6 Protodreads.  This would rebuild them as a unified class of light Battle ship.  The Plan would be to reuse the the turrets and various other bits from them in a compleat new hull.  Opinions are welcome as im not sure this is the right route to take with them but it is somthing im considering.

You can see the Protodreads here
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=56.msg865#msg865
and here is the proposed new ship
Theoden, Rohan Battlehsip laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   22,800 t light; 23,794 t standard; 25,973 t normal; 27,716 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   711.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   216.71 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1919 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8,335 lbs / 3,781 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.10 ft / 7.96 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   9.00" / 229 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 65,583 shp / 48,925 Kw = 26.01 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,922 tons

Complement:
   1,022 - 1,329

Cost:
   £4.237 million / $16.950 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 980 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 9,175 tons, 35.3 %
      - Belts: 4,079 tons, 15.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 1,984 tons, 7.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,390 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 113 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,293 tons, 8.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,918 tons, 38.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,173 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 434 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     44,955 lbs / 20,391 Kg = 52.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.504
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.30 ft / 5.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,070 Square feet or 4,001 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 798 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight: 434 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  50 tons Flag Facilities
  25 tons Radar instalation
  50 tons Reserve
  30 tons Crew Comfort
    2 tons Capitans Cabin
    2 tons Admirals Cabin

Actual cost 20$ 20BP due to reuse of Turrets and various bits from the Protodreads

[miketr]

I am REALLY not sure that doing a Vangaurd on ships with L35, MAYBE, L40 weapons is a good investment. 

[TexanCowboy]

L42, to be exact.

[Tanthalas]

I am REALLY not sure that doing a Vangaurd on ships with L35, MAYBE, L40 weapons is a good investment. 

... they have 12/42.5 same guns as the Arcadias, and the 9X12" & 12X12" BCs.  I belive Ithekro sold or scraped all the ships that had 12/35 and 12/40