Peruvian Studies

[Guinness]

It's interesting to compare this to the Confederate New Mexico/Alabama class:

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=742.msg25887#msg25887

[Jefgte]

Exact I was looking your SS,
similar Përuvian 12000t AC with 3T3x275
& Panzerschiffs Study 20 & 21

http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1630&start=60&mforum=warshipprojects

I "Peruvianise" these studies

It's difficult to have a BB - 22kts on 170m with 9x340
Stability is not very high & recoil is 0.83...

;)

[Borys]

Wouldn't a flushdeck design be better?
Borys

[Jefgte]

Better stability with a turret amidship.

LaPaz, Peru, 20000t-BB laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   20 000 t light; 21 261 t standard; 22 665 t normal; 23 788 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 88.58 ft x 27.92 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 27.00 m  x 8.51 m

Armament:
      6 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      3 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1 199.24lbs / 543.97kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11 657 lbs / 5 288 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   347.77 ft / 106.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
     13.12 ft / 4.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.15" / 80 mm   347.77 ft / 106.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.77" / 45 mm   347.77 ft / 106.00 m   28.25 ft / 8.61 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   13.4" / 340 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   3rd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 13.39" / 340 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 36 000 shp / 26 856 Kw = 22.10 kts
   Range 8 500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 527 tons

Complement:
   923 - 1 200

Cost:
   £4.223 million / $16.891 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 457 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 7 910 tons, 34.9 %
      - Belts: 3 167 tons, 14.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 644 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armament: 1 811 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2 057 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 231 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1 341 tons, 5.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 892 tons, 39.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 665 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29 774 lbs / 13 505 Kg = 24.8 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.87 ft / 5.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 35 299 Square feet or 3 279 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 883 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[mentat]

  AXY gives much better arcs (if rear superstructure kept small + forward) - gives better tactical flexibility esp. vs faster opponents - otherwise they will try to expoit the weakness

  Seakpg is high - so maybe can trade a bit freeboard for a bit more beam on the stability issue

with recoil 0.83 - i guess use salvo fire not broadside?

  i think is very handy and cost effective 2nd class BB - a good buy  :)

[Jefgte]

Ec made to protect BBs  & repulse DDs attack


3600T cruiser, Peru Escort Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   3 600 t light; 3 781 t standard; 4 195 t normal; 4 525 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 41.44 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 12.63 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 872 lbs / 396 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   285.43 ft / 87.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   104.99 ft / 32.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     3.28 ft / 1.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 30 000 shp / 22 380 Kw = 27.08 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 744 tons

Complement:
   259 - 338

Cost:
   £0.748 million / $2.992 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 109 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 661 tons, 15.7 %
      - Belts: 345 tons, 8.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 21 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 277 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1 118 tons, 26.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 551 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 595 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 162 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 674 lbs / 1 667 Kg = 34.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.95
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.23 ft / 4.95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 61.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 10 869 Square feet or 1 010 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 368 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Guinness]

A straightforward well-rounded light cruiser. I like it, except for one issue:

the recoil is quite high. I think 8x6" is going to need a bigger hull. This might not be a bad thing, since a bigger hull could mean faster too.

[The Rock Doctor]

I reckon the belt is not high enough, and the stability is rather low.  Not sure all the fish are needed for the role, either.

[Jefgte]

AC made to work around the Battleline.
- Displacement limited to 12000T
- Protection for 12" shells
- 27kts is the current speed for Peruvian Combat Cruiser
-------------------------
12000t, Peru AC laid down 1919 (Engine 1917)

Displacement:
   12 000 t light; 12 602 t standard; 13 426 t normal; 14 086 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 71.52 ft x 24.85 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 21.80 m  x 7.58 m

Armament:
      6 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (2x3 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4 820 lbs / 2 186 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   11.32 ft / 3.45 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   190.29 ft / 58.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     6.56 ft / 2.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 9.06" / 230 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 54 000 shp / 40 284 Kw = 27.06 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 484 tons

Complement:
   623 - 810

Cost:
   £2.588 million / $10.353 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 582 tons, 4.3 %
   Armour: 3 840 tons, 28.6 %
      - Belts: 1 751 tons, 13.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 750 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 229 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 110 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1 979 tons, 14.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 273 tons, 39.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 426 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 325 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 250 lbs / 7 371 Kg = 25.6 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   20.01 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Stern:      16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.23 ft / 5.56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 25 968 Square feet or 2 413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 650 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

Jef... why oh why do you have to keep reminding me how much I wish Rohan had a 11" gun... your going to force me to develop one I swear.

[Jefgte]

Jef... why oh why do you have to keep reminding me how much I wish Rohan had a 11" gun... your going to force me to develop one I swear.

That is a classic Jef's choice

8x275 or 6x340
8x230 or 6x275
8x152 or 6x230
8x120 or 6x152

Jef  ;)

[Jefgte]

Pocket BB version

8300T, Peru PBB laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8 300 t light; 8 784 t standard; 9 454 t normal; 9 990 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 69.55 ft x 24.91 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 21.20 m  x 7.59 m

Armament:
      6 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (2x3 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      10 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4 504 lbs / 2 043 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 115
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   262.47 ft / 80.00 m   11.15 ft / 3.40 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     6.56 ft / 2.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm   262.47 ft / 80.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 9.06" / 230 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 23 000 shp / 17 158 Kw = 22.06 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 205 tons

Complement:
   479 - 623

Cost:
   £1.733 million / $6.932 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 543 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 2 959 tons, 31.3 %
      - Belts: 1 357 tons, 14.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 662 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 852 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 87 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 857 tons, 9.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 641 tons, 38.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 154 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 497 lbs / 5 215 Kg = 18.1 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.485
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.66 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forecastle (23 %):   18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (21 %):   15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Stern:      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.64 ft / 5.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 18 000 Square feet or 1 672 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 652 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily