new Orange ships and projects

[Nobody]

I revised my design of a civilian science ship.

Explorer, Orange Science vessel laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   2.880 t light; 2.965 t standard; 4.074 t normal; 4.961 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,69 ft / 390,42 ft x 63,98 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 119,00 m x 19,50 m  x 3,00 m

Armament:
      2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      1 - 1,00" / 25,4 mm guns in single mounts, 0,50lbs / 0,23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 28 lbs / 13 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0,24" / 6 mm   259,19 ft / 79,00 m   14,76 ft / 4,50 m   ~50% stronger underwater sides
   Ends:   0,59" / 15 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   18,04 ft / 5,50 m   double strength bow § stern
     Main Belt covers 102% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      0,31" / 8 mm   295,28 ft / 90,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m   double hull sides

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0,39" / 10 mm, Conning tower: 0,39" / 10 mm   reinforced double bottom (~50%)

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8.200 ihp / 6.117 Kw = 18,86 kts
   Range 12.030nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.996 tons (70% coal)

Complement:
   254 - 331

Cost:
   £0,321 million / $1,284 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0,1%
   Armour: 265 tons, 6,5%
      - Belts: 91 tons, 2,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 40 tons, 1,0%
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0,0%
      - Armour Deck: 131 tons, 3,2%
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,1%
   Machinery: 520 tons, 12,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.471 tons, 36,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.194 tons, 29,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 620 tons, 15,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11.786 lbs / 5.346 Kg = 873,0 x 3,0 " / 76 mm shells or 2,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,59
   Metacentric height 5,6 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 11,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,10 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,38 ft / 0,42 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m (14,44 ft / 4,40 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,11 ft / 4,30 m (13,78 ft / 4,20 m before break)
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,24 ft / 4,65 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 187,3%
   Waterplane Area: 17.929 Square feet or 1.666 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 209%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 316 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Armor represents reinforced hull and bottom, to allow usage in treacherous waters (artic, coral reefs etc.)

misc. includes
- 2 long range radio sets (=50 t)
- labs
- workshops
- expedition equipment
- medical facilities
- leisure room
- library
- 2 Barkassen (40 t each, total of 160 t including derricks)

I hope that with the description, this is ok to build to mercantile standard (as discussed before, btw without armor the composite strength would be approximately 1.18).
The Barkassen are the same as before, and without them the ship is 2800 t light.

Detailed suggestions about the misc weight distribution are welcome. :)

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd be okay with it being built to mercantile standards.

[Nobody]

This ship was actually laid down and paid "before my time", I just forgot to increase the build time so it wasn't finished before mid 1917

I heavily modified P3D's design, this is my outcome:
Displacement:
   8.002 t light; 8.322 t standard; 12.838 t normal; 16.450 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 392,06 ft x 76,77 ft x 22,97 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 119,50 m x 23,40 m  x 7,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (3x2 guns), 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0,40" / 10,2 mm guns in single mounts, 0,03lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 219 lbs / 99 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 500

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 1,18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 17.459 shp / 13.024 Kw = 19,20 kts
   Range 34.140nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.128 tons
      Range: 16079 nm @ 12 kn without extra fuel

Complement:
   602 - 783

Cost:
   £0,583 million / $2,330 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 27 tons, 0,2%
   Armour: 28 tons, 0,2%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 14 tons, 0,1%
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0,1%
   Machinery: 696 tons, 5,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.850 tons, 22,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.836 tons, 37,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 4.400 tons, 34,3%
      25 t Radio
      25 t 'radar'
      25 t FC
      25 t ?
      4300 t for tender functions + 4300 t extra fuel = 8600 t for tender function
      --> can support 34400 t of shipping

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23.297 lbs / 10.567 Kg = 728,0 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 3,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
   Metacentric height 4,8 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,93 ft / 7,60 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      17,72 ft / 5,40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,72 ft / 5,40 m
      - Stern:      18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,36 ft / 5,90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129,8%
   Waterplane Area: 23.058 Square feet or 2.142 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 213%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 426 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,91
      - Longitudinal: 2,20
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Edit: removed the torpedo bulkhead

[Nobody]

There have been two large (20000 t) ocean liners under construction in the orange reports for some time now. Since they were finished in november 1917 I look for a ship that was laid down in 1915.
Could this be the ship in question? 22.360 t of the misc weight would have to count as "non functional"! Or do I have to search for a different design or create a new one?

Liner 1915, Orange Ocean Liner laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   42.360 t light; 43.591 t standard; 55.155 t normal; 64.406 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   885,00 ft / 879,00 ft x 110,00 ft x 33,00 ft (normal load)
   269,75 m / 267,92 m x 33,53 m  x 10,06 m

Armament:
      8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 0,36" / 9,2 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 972 lbs / 441 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      1,00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79.761 shp / 59.501 Kw = 24,40 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 24,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 20.814 tons

Complement:
   1.799 - 2.339

Cost:
   £2,953 million / $11,810 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 122 tons, 0,2%
   Armour: 43 tons, 0,1%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 43 tons, 0,1%
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 3.180 tons, 5,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.015 tons, 27,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 12.795 tons, 23,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 24.000 tons, 43,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     94.200 lbs / 42.728 Kg = 46,0 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 5,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 7,1 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 17,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,605
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,99 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29,65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      34,00 ft / 10,36 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   33,00 ft / 10,06 m
      - Mid (50%):      33,00 ft / 10,06 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   25,00 ft / 7,62 m (33,00 ft / 10,06 m before break)
      - Stern:      25,00 ft / 7,62 m
      - Average freeboard:   31,88 ft / 9,72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 248,2%
   Waterplane Area: 71.048 Square feet or 6.601 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 176%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 699 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,26
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[maddox]

24 000 tons misc= 12 000 men as a troop transport.

[Nobody]

Thant's interesting maddox and would have been my next question, but doesn't answer my first:
Is the misc weight I reserve for troop transport partially or fully "non-functional"?

[TexanCowboy]

I don't believe it to be. The troops have nessasary supplies such as extra bathrooms, extra food, extra water on the ship before they get on.

[Nobody]

I don't believe it to be. The troops have nessasary supplies such as extra bathrooms, extra food, extra water on the ship before they get on.

That's exactly what made me think about it.
I could imagine that at least half of that weight is used for fixed (functional) installations while the other half could be reserved for food, water, luggage, the soldier himself and his equipment and therefore be "non-functional" (because it's not installed when the ship is build).

[maddox]

The misc weigth on the ships is used for -in normal situations- to give the passengers all comfort the class they represent, for troop transport it's all, or most taken out, and replaced by a lot simpler materials. Bunks stacked 5 high and so.

If you lower the misc weight on the ship, it will carry less passengers/troops.

Straight from Ship Design guidelines
Troops:  1 t per four troops for short-ranged landing craft.  2 t per troop for long-term (> 1 day) embarkment.

The misc weight distribution on the twice torpedo'd French Superliner  Le Magnificent

18000tons of misc weight is:

8.50t / 1st class cabin passenger .........800 passengers = 6800tons
4.25t / 2nd class cabin passenger.........1000 passengers = 4250tons
1.78t / Steerage passenger......................2500 passengers = 4450tons
Total passengers.......................................4300 passengers = 14900tons
Cargo = 1500tons
Extras inc wireless & more lifeboats = 1000tons

Or

17000tons = 8500soldiers
1000tons = cargo

[Nobody]

Atlantic & Indic, Orange Ocean Liner laid down 1915 (Engine 1912) enter service November 1917

Displacement:
   20.006 t light; 20.660 t standard; 28.470 t normal; 34.718 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   707,00 ft / 707,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 27,00 ft (normal load)
   215,49 m / 215,49 m x 30,48 m  x 8,23 m

Armament:
      8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 972 lbs / 441 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 37.713 shp / 28.134 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 21,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 14.058 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1.095 - 1.424

Cost:
   £1,504 million / $6,015 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 122 tons, 0,4%
   Armour: 28 tons, 0,1%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 28 tons, 0,1%
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 1.654 tons, 5,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.203 tons, 28,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8.463 tons, 29,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 10.000 tons, 35,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55.776 lbs / 25.299 Kg = 516,4 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 5,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
   Metacentric height 6,9 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,98

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,07 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30,00 ft / 9,14 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   25,00 ft / 7,62 m
      - Mid (50%):      25,00 ft / 7,62 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   25,00 ft / 7,62 m
      - Stern:      25,00 ft / 7,62 m
      - Average freeboard:   25,40 ft / 7,74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 209,0%
   Waterplane Area: 48.068 Square feet or 4.466 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 199%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 585 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,35
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Guinness]

20,000 tons and 22 knots is a restrained liner around here. :)

What route(s) are they expected to work when in service?

[Nobody]

Actually I don't know. They have been build, but were finished late (I forgot them for at least a year). They didn't look too bad, so I used them (my own attempts to design a 20kt Liner were failures) and with 7000 nm@21 knots their should be no shortage in possible routes.

[Guinness]

Indeed! Kaapstadt to Marseilles is 5756 NM. Trip would take ~ 11.5 days. Kaapstadt to Charleston would be 6836 NM. Trip would take a little more than 13.5 days. Both (among many others) could be quite profitable I imagine.

[Sachmle]

Combined with the other 4 built in 1901 you've probably got the largest liner service in Navalism.

[TexanCowboy]

Tied. France has 6.