New Experimental Light Cruiser

[TexanCowboy]

New Cruiser of mine. I got payed by Korpen to use the BP on sale for myself, so, here goes.

Racheta , Romania Expiermental Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,418 t light; 2,593 t standard; 3,273 t normal; 3,816 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   350.00 ft / 350.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 17.00 ft (normal load)
   106.68 m / 106.68 m x 10.67 m  x 5.18 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns in single mounts, 51.91lbs / 23.55kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      10 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,177 lbs / 534 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   14 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

   - Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23,340 shp / 17,412 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 10,012nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,223 tons

Complement:
   216 - 281

Cost:
   £0.645 million / $2.581 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 147 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 14 tons, 0.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,048 tons, 32.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,131 tons, 34.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 855 tons, 26.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 77 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,702 lbs / 772 Kg = 15.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.58 ft / 6.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.10 ft / 3.99 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.10 ft / 3.99 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.10 ft / 3.99 m
      - Stern:      13.10 ft / 3.99 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.70 ft / 4.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 141.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 21.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,549 Square feet or 794 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 338 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.40
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

4 tubes are Torpedo Tubes
Twin Mounts
1 reload per tube(8 tons)

Long Range Macroni(25 tons)

The ohter tubes are black-powder rocket tubes
6 of them are normal muilti-stage  "Fire-Dragon issuing from Water" rockets(China)
Maximum range of 5,000 yards

4 of them are a new single-stage anti-torpedo rocket, with a maximum range of 300 meters. The rocket is meant to either destroy the rocket or alter its course with the shockwave resulting from its explosion.It has a pressure vessel that allows the rocket down to 10 meters.

Assuming rockets are three to a ton, 13 rocket per tube.(44 tons)
2 rockets extra.

[Guinness]

I personally see no reason for the 4.7" guns on a ship with 8 6" guns. I'd think about going with more 6"ers, or maybe use the difference on at least light splinter protection around the hoists or machinery.

The range is also quite large for black sea service.

All that said, the concept of an unarmored cruiser is different. When it's been floated around here before, the emphasis was on torpedoes, based on the theory that if a ship like this were to find itself in a "fair" fight, it might need the instant knock-out capability of torpedoes.

I expect that the displacement is dictated by your available BP. Is all that BP available in one half? It would take two halves to build this ship.

I wonder if the Dutch are in a giving mood, if they might be persuaded to provide the machinery for you, which would mean she could be considerably faster on the same displacement.

[Sachmle]

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     Main guns limited to end-on fire

[TexanCowboy]

How do I fix that?

[maddox]

Change the hull, or reduce main guns in size or amount.

Other option is to place a few of those 6" in hull casemates.

[The Rock Doctor]

Lower freeboard, reduce the armament, or increase the hull size.

Can you point me to historical analogues for the rocket systems you're proposing?

[TexanCowboy]

Revised Design. Rocky, I'm looking

Racheta , Romania Expiermental Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,437 t light; 2,594 t standard; 3,273 t normal; 3,815 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   350.00 ft / 350.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 17.00 ft (normal load)
   106.68 m / 106.68 m x 10.67 m  x 5.18 m

Armament:
     2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
     4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     6 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns in single mounts, 51.91lbs / 23.55kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
     10 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 961 lbs / 436 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   14 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -

  - Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23,340 shp / 17,412 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 10,002nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,222 tons

Complement:
   216 - 281

Cost:
   £0.609 million / $2.434 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 120 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 56 tons, 1.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 42 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,061 tons, 32.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,106 tons, 33.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 836 tons, 25.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 93 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,801 lbs / 817 Kg = 16.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.58 ft / 6.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.10 ft / 3.99 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.10 ft / 3.99 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.10 ft / 3.99 m
      - Stern:      13.10 ft / 3.99 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.70 ft / 4.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 136.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 21.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,549 Square feet or 794 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 330 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

4 tubes are Torpedo Tubes
Twin Mounts
1 reload per tube(8 tons)

Long Range Macroni(25 tons)

The ohter tubes are black-powder rocket tubes
6 of them are normal muilti-stage  "Fire-Dragon issuing from Water" rockets(China)
Maximum range of 5,000 yards

4 of them are a new single-stage anti-torpedo rocket, with a maximum range of 300 meters. The rocket is meant to either destroy the rocket or alter its course with the shockwave resulting from its explosion.It has a pressure vessel that allows the rocket down to 10 meters. Also can be a Fire-Dragon issuing from water that drops its warhead at a at a predetermined depth, like a Civil War Case Shot, with a String burning to cause a small explosion to seperate the two.

Assuming rockets are three to a ton, 17 rocket per tube.(46 tons)
2 rockets extra.

4 tons crew comfort/ Weight Reserve

[Logi]

He's using my rockets.

"Fire-Dragon issuing from Water" was a rocket launcher used on ships to fight other ships during the 13th century. Seriously out dated, but what it does is it skims along the water, making it hard to shoot down and exploded against the enemy ship. From what I can tell, he took my rockets which used to produce flames (13th century were wooden ships) and replaced the explosives with gunpowder for an explosive attack.

Now, I know my stuff, ie. stuff from China, but I'm not sure about the anti-torpedo rocket system he's proposing.


In principle I don't see any problems with it. China did develop multi-stage and single-stage rockets a few centuries before this time. My only concern is, would it really work and what pressure vessel are you talking about?

[maddox]

The only thing I ever  read about active torpedo protection WW I was the French trying to shoot torpedo's with the small anti torpedo boat Hotchkiss guns of 37, 47 or  57 mm.

Logi, your black power rockets are know, documented and used. Also, these rockets have a western counterpart in the Congreve rockets.

TexanCowboy, I rather would like that you reduce the amount of torpedo tubes, and put "XX tons in experimental torpedo defence weapons"

In effect, you're working on the level of AS warfare, but with rockets propelling a small depth charge that explodes shallow.(the pressure vessel is a tiny depth charge)

1916: hydrophones, depth charge throwers

But I'm afraid you'll have to develop the 1910 level first.
1910: ASW tactics, depth charges

[Tanthalas]

COuld it be Rohan Rockets he is using or basing them on, I know Ithekro had "Rocket" Guns

[maddox]

The Rohirrim Rockets were anti aircraft.  A Nverse II relic, because the "Eastern Empire Airship pipedreams".

[Korpen]

What sort of operations is she intended for?
At the moment my impression is that she is a bit of a comprimis, she got exellent firepower (the recoil problems aside), but her lack of armour makes her vulnerable to even the smallest stray round if she is hunting smaller ships. On the other hand she lack mine carrying capacity, so her offensive capability on her own is very limited, and her for offensive seeps low speed make her less certain to escape retribution.

So I think that the concept need to be refined a bit; what do you want her to be capable to do?

[TexanCowboy]

Maddox, I would, but the rockets are designed to be shot out of a modified torpedo tube.

Logi, the anti torpedo rocket is one of two things. The short range rockets fire at a slanted angle, and explode when contacted is made with the torpedo, when it exceeds 10 meters, or when a pre-determined time is set for it to blow. The long range rocket is the same as a normal rocket, but at a predetermined distance, a string on fire sets off a small explosion, dropping the warhead into the water to explode on contact or at a predetermined depth.

She is a flotila leader. The rockets and torpedos can be replaced by mines if needs, specially designed to be shot out torpedo tubes.

[maddox]

TexanCowboy. A torpedo tube isn't much more than a tube, fixed or trainable, with a system that trows the torpedo out, compressed air for example. Why you would use a torpedo tube where a much smaller aimable rocket frame will do more for less.

Korpen
It seems the Romanians like the concept of max firepower.

In this case, type 1 dock to build her in, around 2-3 Ktons. And range to get her to the Romanian Island of Masirah.

And max amount of torpedo tubes.

[TexanCowboy]

Maddox, actually I really don't like that system, at least on captial ships. The German battlecruisers did a lot better at Jutland becsuse of it. I'm going to retry the ship. There so big becuase instead of a regular 10 kilogram warhead, I'm using a 100 kilogram warhead, the same as my torpedoes.