Design for me...Part 2

[The Rock Doctor]

Not ignoring you at all, Logi, just not commenting on every single design that comes through.  Your submission strikes me as expensive and over-armored for the task of killing CLs and merchant cruisers.

Appreciate the offer of building some for you, but I may pass.

[ctwaterman]

having noticed a mistake in the designers request for 2.5cm not 2.5 Inches of deck armor the Italian Design has been motified and gained a full not of speed from the change.

Jamacia, GC Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,591 t light; 7,914 t standard; 8,561 t normal; 9,079 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   536.22 ft / 525.00 ft x 52.00 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
   163.44 m / 160.02 m x 15.85 m  x 7.47 m

Armament:
      8 - 7.64" / 194 mm guns (3 mounts), 222.78lbs / 101.05kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.38lbs / 3.80kg shells, 1911 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1911 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,805 lbs / 819 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.25" / 83 mm   380.00 ft / 115.82 m   15.65 ft / 4.77 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      3.00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.25" / 32 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 69,445 shp / 51,806 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,166 tons

Complement:
   444 - 578

Cost:
   £1.635 million / $6.540 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 226 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 1,352 tons, 15.8 %
      - Belts: 789 tons, 9.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 126 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 402 tons, 4.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,587 tons, 30.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,126 tons, 36.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 970 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,011 lbs / 2,727 Kg = 27.0 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.448
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.10 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.20 ft / 7.99 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.04 ft / 5.19 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.04 ft / 5.19 m
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   17.04 ft / 5.19 m
      - Stern:      17.04 ft / 5.19 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.77 ft / 5.42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,385 Square feet or 1,615 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 484 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

100T    Fire Control
4T   Torpedoes
12T   3 Torpedo Reloads
25T   Long Ranger Wireless
150T   Room for Expansion
Main Belt Sloped at 10 Degree's

[Korpen]

having noticed a mistake in the designers request for 2.5cm not 2.5 Inches of deck armor the Italian Design has been motified and gained a full not of speed from the change.

Jamacia, GC Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,591 t light; 7,914 t standard; 8,561 t normal; 9,079 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   536.22 ft / 525.00 ft x 52.00 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
   163.44 m / 160.02 m x 15.85 m  x 7.47 m

Armament:
      8 - 7.64" / 194 mm guns (3 mounts), 222.78lbs / 101.05kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
100T    Fire Control

I got the impression that main gun in turrets were wanted. http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4071.msg44819#msg44819
That also gives 250 ton FC.

[The Rock Doctor]

Indeed, turrets are wanted.

I notice a small problem in belt length...

[Korpen]

A slower, lighter Gonzales with some secondaries and somewhat improved protection.  Still, I suspect she is a bit too large.
Just a side view for now. Trid to make it a bit in GC-style.

Gonzales II, GC Båt laid down 1916


Displacement:
   11 000 t light; 11 433 t standard; 12 846 t normal; 13 976 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   610,24 ft / 610,24 ft x 61,02 ft x 24,74 ft (normal load)
   186,00 m / 186,00 m x 18,60 m  x 7,54 m

Armament:
      8 - 7,64" / 194 mm guns (4x2 guns), 222,78lbs / 101,05kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 2,56" / 65,0 mm guns in single mounts, 8,38lbs / 3,80kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 043 lbs / 927 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,95" / 75 mm   482,28 ft / 147,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,50" / 165 mm   2,95" / 75 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,59" / 15 mm      0,98" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 109 640 shp / 81 791 Kw = 33,00 kts
   Range 12 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 543 tons

Complement:
   603 - 784

Cost:
   £1,917 million / $7,667 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 255 tons, 2,0 %
   Armour: 1 901 tons, 14,8 %
      - Belts: 755 tons, 5,9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 428 tons, 3,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 626 tons, 4,9 %
      - Conning Tower: 93 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 4 085 tons, 31,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 453 tons, 34,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 846 tons, 14,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 305 tons, 2,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 376 lbs / 4 253 Kg = 42,1 x 7,6 " / 194 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 3,2 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 14,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,488
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,71 ft / 8,75 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Stern:      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,45 ft / 5,93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 24 545 Square feet or 2 280 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 529 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,36
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[mentat]

Looks nice - is it too early for slight clipper bow - seems 33 knots 'requires' it?

[Logi]

Indeed I got a bit carried away. I set the size at 13k ton s so that's what happened.
Second Try, thinner.

Paper, GC Cruiser-Roo laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,307 t standard; 9,689 t normal; 10,795 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 167.64 m x 16.76 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      6 - 7.64" / 194 mm guns (3x2 guns), 222.78lbs / 101.05kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,349 lbs / 612 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.40" / 36 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 73,574 shp / 54,886 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 14,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,488 tons

Complement:
   487 - 634

Cost:
   £1.611 million / $6.443 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 169 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 1,483 tons, 15.3 %
      - Belts: 653 tons, 6.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 272 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 499 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,741 tons, 28.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,252 tons, 33.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,689 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 355 tons, 3.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,988 lbs / 3,623 Kg = 35.9 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.448
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.61 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.44 ft / 5.01 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,271 Square feet or 1,790 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 479 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.45
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[TexanCowboy]

That's a lot of anti-airguns. And, whats with all the torpedos. Besides that, and the lake of a secondary, I like it.

[Logi]

8 AA guns, is just really my anesthetic taste. No real reason for them. The torpedoes are to make up for the lack of secondary and the lost of one of the main battery guns.

[ctwaterman]

Head of Italian design bureau waving hands and madly screaming at designers.


"You Idiots you increase the speed and you dont think all the extra boilers might require that maybe you think and get off your lazy Butts and increase the belt armor"

"Im going on my Wine Break"