Romanian CBB/AC design competition

[TexanCowboy]

the contest ends at midnight

[The Rock Doctor]

Oh yeah.  We can sort out those kinds of details if we end up with a deal to discuss.

[TexanCowboy]

Okay, the contest is at aend

The Imperial Romanian Goverment chose the Peru submisson to be the winner. Romania will purchase this ship, pending on price.

The Gran Columbian submission was judged too slow and too few main guns, not to mention that the caliber of main guns was way too much. The decisive factor was the speed, 14 knots not being close to enough.

The Brandenburg submission was over all effective, but it was judged to cost too much compared to Romania's budget.

The New Zion/Switzerland(with Desertfox in control of both during the contest  ;D) design was too much of a main battery(I'm trying to stay way from 10'' guns, I prefer 9'' guns)

The Baltic Confederation design was judged to be too expensive, too slow, and have too heavy of a main battery.

The Confederate design was good, and Romania would buy it if Jefgte's price is too high. However, it's main battery was judged to be too little.

The French design was deemed too be underarmed and underprotected for a armoured cruiser.

The France

[Logi]

Er, firepower's a bit on the low side, I only have twins. Though I would squeeze two 11"s on but it was too much. In exchange you have a powerful secondary battery.

I have no access to oil en mass (therefore no oil technology), so you're stuck with mixed coal/oil-firing boilers.

Hai-Hwo (Black Sea), Romania CBB laid down 1918 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5,500 t light; 5,829 t standard; 6,319 t normal; 6,711 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   450.00 ft / 450.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 16.20 ft (normal load)
   137.16 m / 137.16 m x 16.76 m  x 4.94 m

Armament:
     4 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2x2 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     16 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (8x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 2,472 lbs / 1,121 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Upper:   2.00" / 51 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      4.00" / 102 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,702 shp / 8,730 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 882 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   353 - 460

Cost:
   £1.046 million / $4.186 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 309 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 1,837 tons, 29.1 %
      - Belts: 1,100 tons, 17.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 213 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 480 tons, 7.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 44 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 508 tons, 8.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,526 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 819 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 5.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,621 lbs / 4,364 Kg = 20.2 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.18 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.62 ft / 4.15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,299 Square feet or 1,607 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 497 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t Fire control System
25t Long Range Wireless
25t Radar
20t 20 21" Torpedoes

[Logi]

I'm not following the too weak comment... Where is it too weak, considering how you actually gave real feedback to the other ships, this seems quite rude to me. And my coasts are well defended, thank you. I lack offensive capabilities more than defensive.

[TexanCowboy]

I'm sorry, it's been a long day. :-[

My critisims are as follows: The main caliber of the cruiser is too high, and there are too few main guns. Sorry, I don't really like pre-dreadnought style cruiser armerments. It's also longer then my drydock can support.

[Logi]

Now that's more like it ;)

See why I hate metric? Here I thought the limit was 400ft, not 120m. :D But I increased the length of the ship cause I thought it would be too tight a fit, oh well.

[Jefgte]

Cool, I have an other Friend at the opposite side of the world.

;)

[maddox]

If you want a mini BB, Jef's pocket battleship is the way to go.

The French entry wasn't ment to slug it out, but to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.  The main guns would hurt a BB on the light or non armored places, so, producing a mission kill.

Of course, a Demarce IV would do the job beter, but she's more than twice as heavy.

[Jefgte]

In Peruvian Building Plan (Excel board), I have a free 120m Slipway in Pisco from 1917H2 to 1919H2

Cost of the Romania 5000t AC - 5BP & 0$

You could pay 1BP or 1.5 or per HY from 1917H1 to 1919H2 -


;)

[Guinness]

Mod wet blanket time: a reminder that BP is a capability, not a commodity to be traded. Romania might, of course, build something with it's BP for Peru, but what that is and what ship it ends up going in would need to be specifically detailed.

[TexanCowboy]

We could make a deal, I could make you 3-4 frigates for that ship. I have the space

[Korpen]

I would not be suprised if the Dutch coastal BBs migth fit the bill: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=676.msg23494#msg23494

We could make a deal, I could make you 3-4 frigates for that ship. I have the space

Hm, that would be in the region of 50-100 000ton of ships then? (15-30kton each).

[TexanCowboy]

by frigates, I mean a 1-2,000 ton ship, like a destoyer escort of world war 2

[Korpen]

by frigates, I mean a 1-2,000 ton ship, like a destoyer escort of world war 2

So, not using Dutch terminology then? :)