CSA 1917 New Designs

[Guinness]

The first new design for the 1917 building year to be revealed is the new F-Class Torpedo Ram. Designed specifically for work with the scouting force, these ships carrying one less main gun than the preceding E-Class, but of larger caliber: 4.75" 50-pounder vs. 4" 30-pounders. They also carry the new 21" torpedo in place of the older 20".

Extra range and much improved freeboard and seakeeping should mean that this ship can drive harder into heavier seas while also being able to cruise further. This is considered a great benefit in the planned role.

F-Class, CSA Torpedo Ram laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,554 t standard; 1,803 t normal; 2,002 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   375.00 ft / 370.00 ft x 34.75 ft x 11.42 ft (normal load)
   114.30 m / 112.78 m x 10.59 m  x 3.48 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 154 lbs / 70 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 35,000 shp / 26,110 Kw = 32.12 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 449 tons

Complement:
   137 - 179

Cost:
   £0.373 million / $1.494 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 21 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 9 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 969 tons, 53.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 413 tons, 22.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 303 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 89 tons, 4.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     408 lbs / 185 Kg = 7.6 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 10.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.95

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.65 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 73
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.10 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.50 ft / 6.55 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Mid (37 %):      17.50 ft / 5.33 m (9.50 ft / 2.90 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   9.50 ft / 2.90 m
      - Stern:      9.50 ft / 2.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.98 ft / 3.96 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,074 Square feet or 750 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 63 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 143 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.95
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weights:
25 tons: Fire control
25 tons: Long Range Wireless
10 tons: Captain(TR) facilities
12 tons: Torpedoes
4 tons: 12 depth charges (launched from stern racks)
13 tons: Reserve

Seakeeping at 28.5 knots: 1.24
Trial Speed: 32.79 knots

Range at 15 knots: 4250 nm
Range at 20 knots: 2040 nm
Range at 25 knots: 1095 nm
Range at 28.5 knots: 739 nm
Range at top speed: 507 nm

[maddox]

I like these.

[Borys]

More guns, even if slightly smaller, are IMO better.
Borys

[Jefgte]

Misc Weights:
25 tons: Fire control
25 tons: Long Range Wireless
10 tons: Captain(TR) facilities
12 tons: Torpedoes
4 tons: 12 depth charges (launched from stern racks)
13 tons: Reserve

Did you have reload system ?


;)

[Guinness]

Torpedoes are 2 tons a piece 1913 tech big 21" numbers.

I vacillated on the gun caliber selection. The same ship could ship 4 of the previous standard 4" gun, or 6 of the 3.5" gun seen on smaller Confederate torpedo craft and other ships. In the end, the larger broadside of the 4.75" gun won out. Part of the reasoning there is that with fire control, more hits are expected, so less rounds in flight are acceptable.

The very same ship, without the 25t long-range wireless can ship 5 4.75" guns. With a little less freeboard, it can carry 6, but then I'm working with a design that needs hoists.

For this role, I think the 3 gun ship is ok. Later in it's life, it might be refit with a different armament.

[Guinness]

The current draft of the G-Class fleet boat is here: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2778.msg42735#msg42735

This would be the next pure destroyer, without extra provision for the scouting role seen in the F-Class.

[Guinness]

Concerned by the lack of modern 2nd Class Cruisers, the CSN has both committed to modernize the ships of the Mobile and Buchanan classes, as well as to building a new design, the Wheeler Class. The new ships will be controversial by virtue of their large size which was necessitated by the speed and range requirements. Both named for Cavalry Generals, the class is already known inside the Navy Department as the "Cavalry Class".



C-22 CSS Wheeler
C-23 CSS Stuart

CSS Wheeler, CSA Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   16,370 t light; 17,077 t standard; 19,955 t normal; 22,257 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   686.00 ft / 670.00 ft x 75.25 ft x 26.64 ft (normal load)
   209.09 m / 204.22 m x 22.94 m  x 8.12 m

Armament:
     8 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (4x2 guns), 380.00lbs / 172.37kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (6x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     1 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
     2 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,646 lbs / 1,654 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 147
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   435.50 ft / 132.74 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      6.50" / 165 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         1.50" / 38 mm
   3rd:         -      1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:         -      1.00" / 25 mm            -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 126,000 shp / 93,996 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 19,116nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,180 tons

Complement:
   839 - 1,091

Cost:
   £2.955 million / $11.821 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 471 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 3,608 tons, 18.1 %
      - Belts: 1,760 tons, 8.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 804 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 949 tons, 4.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 95 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 4,694 tons, 23.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,204 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,585 tons, 18.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 393 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,390 lbs / 10,610 Kg = 60.1 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.88 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (68 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (13 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.05 ft / 7.33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,215 Square feet or 3,179 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 131 lbs/sq ft or 640 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
50t: Flag Facilities
12t: Torpedoes
53t: Reserve

Endurance:

24 hours at max speed + 8620 nm at 12 knots
or
24 hours at max speed + 5300 nm at 15 knots
or
24 hours at max speed + 2677 nm at 20 knots
or
24 hours at max speed + 1460 nm at 25 knots
or
1617 nm at max speed (50.5 hours)

[The Rock Doctor]

Other than her bunkerage, which seems really excessive, I like her.  Very nice looking, too.

[Sachmle]

Oooo...pretty. I like it. I've been trying to get something similar w/ my 24cm but fail continuously. Probably trying to get too much out of to little weight. I'm just spoiled w/ the 15k Moltke's.

[Guinness]

I've been reading waaaaaaaaaay too much about US intra-war strategic doctrine, hence her bunkerage.

In a nutshell, I've adopted the same sort of standards the USN was adopting starting with the battlescout studies: X distance at Y knots, + 24 hours max speed. With an anticipated cruise speed of 15 knots plus in most conditions, she's not *that* long-legged.

This one may be an overshoot though. I did consciously keep her at the magic 18% for Fuel, etc. value.

The mission, in a nutshell is to operate independently, with minimal support, and find the enemy far from Confederate shores, so that the battlefleet can be deployed to maximum advantage. As such speed and range were the driving characteristics, with protection and firepower coming after the approximate hull size was selected.

[Tanthalas]

Similar to what im working on for the next generation of Rohan Combat Cruisers.  although I was leaning toward 6X12" for them.

[The Rock Doctor]

What is the X and Y in your equation?

How does USN strategic doctrine apply to CSA?  Your main rival is just across the Caribbean, rather than all the way across the Pacific.

I'd be willing to be that at 10 knots, she's got sufficient bunkerage to circumnavigate the planet...

[Guinness]

What is the X and Y in your equation?

How does USN strategic doctrine apply to CSA?  Your main rival is just across the Caribbean, rather than all the way across the Pacific.

I'd be willing to be that at 10 knots, she's got sufficient bunkerage to circumnavigate the planet...

X is 6000 nm, Y is 15 knots. And you have a point, but in the last couple of real life strategic episodes the CSN has contemplated steaming long distances into enemy waters with little to no advance intelligence. To me, these ships are an expression of that. The idea is that we don't want to have to worry about tankers or refueling cutting into such a trip.

Have no fear though, this isn't necessarily the new standard. 2nd class cruisers will have longer legs than the rest of the CSN to be sure, but we don't plan any more than 12 of them at any one time. For other ships, I've been operating on:

DDs: 12 hours at top speed (minimum)
BBs and BCs: 5500 at 12 + 24 hours at top speed
3rd Class (ie light) cruisers: 6000 at 12 + 24 hours at top speed (assumes having to do extra maneuvering compared to their charges)
2nd Class (ie heavy) cruisers: 5000 at 15 + 24 hours at top speed

I just checked, and yes, at 10 knots, she can circumnavigate the globe.

[mentat]

Damn fine lookers - but given the focus on speed, range + seakeeping - they would also be very good heavy raiders ..... ;)

[Jefgte]

A good raider &...
what a nice design


;)