Franji mine layer 1916 + Miscellaneous ships

[P3D]

Faster than say 28kts, rather (unless it is a, say, 150t boat).
Destroyers/TBs are naval ships, so no civilian construction here.

[Guinness]

Destroyer and TB architecture - Top speed no less than 20kts, composite hull strength > 0.49

From: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=81.msg1132#msg1132

Again the usual proviso about a rule maybe needing changing applies here.

There is no clause (that I know of) about ships built to civilian rules not being built to the DD rules. I agree with you though that there should be no "civilian discount" for a ship built to the DD rules. So I suppose this case is covered by this clause:

Moderators have may require a ship to be built to normal military standards if they believe that the intent of a design is to produce a cheap warship.

Found here: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2965.msg30705#msg30705

or maybe this clause:

Hull Strength

Minimum 0.50 cross-sectional hull strength for ships built to Destroyer/TB tech; otherwise, composite hull strength of 1.00 is recommended.  Ships not meeting this criteria are at risk of moderator-inflicted incidents.

Found here: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2726.msg29462#msg29462

So along those lines a warning: I have it on good authority that ship-eating giant squid inhabit the waters off Darwin ;)

[sgdn]

the shiis more theory than any thing solid
same with the question[can dd/tb tech aka fast ship tech be combined with civilian standerds

towards some thing like this

well not quite but you get the idea

well it looks like the tech is not quite able to pull it off yet any way

ptr1a, Firanji ptr laid down 1916

Displacement:
   3,028 t light; 3,129 t standard; 4,912 t normal; 6,339 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 45.93 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 14.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      2 - 0.49" / 12.5 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 71 lbs / 32 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 70

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 24,077 shp / 17,961 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,211 tons

Complement:
   293 - 381

Cost:
   £0.391 million / $1.564 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 9 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 897 tons, 18.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,562 tons, 31.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,885 tons, 38.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 560 tons, 11.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,573 lbs / 3,889 Kg = 242.7 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.483
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,866 Square feet or 1,102 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 203 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 318 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.87
      - Longitudinal: 3.53
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Miscellaneous weights: 560 tons
25t big radio
35 t safes x2
200t passenger space
400t cargo space

[P3D]

Since when 20kts counts as fast ship?

It irks me because the only reason for the 0.50 cross-sectional strength is the too heavy engines.
That would save you like 300t on an 1000t patrol boat which need not not go faster than 20kt. More than whatever the engine themselves weight (~200t) which is absurd, and cannot be justified by 'the use of light scantlings' or whatever.

[P3D]

SS2 deals with single displacement hulls only and cannot be used to sim fast multihulls. 25kts is within the limits though. And L:B of 8.6 is too slim for a multihull.

The SS2 would be acceptable for a "conventional" fast transport/auxiliary commerce raider.
Your misc weight adds up to 695t BTW.

[sgdn]

My guess is to account for coal fuelled reciprocating engines in that case 20knts is fast[ish]

Opps on the misc weight I make it 660 which is still not right

The picture has not got any thing to do with the sim its to illustrate the idea


right this should be the corect  Miscellaneous weight
Miscellaneous weights: 560 tons
25t big radio
200t passenger space
335t cargo space