firanji battleships formaly cdbb/small battle ship + new battle ship

[P3D]

If you build it no earlier than 1918, try to get license for 15" guns and mounts from someone - you'd have time to develop it that way.

[Borys]

1 is 330mm guns still with or without super heavy shells competitive

Superheavy shells are over advertised.
A 13"/45-50 rifle with c.1200 lbs shells is still quite competitive.

Borys

[Korpen]

Ok I have some questions

1 is 330mm guns still with or without super heavy shells competitive
2 as for speed is 21 knts plenty for a battleship
3 with the 2800t house class [3x3] the earliest I can build it is 1918 how does that affect questions 1 and 2

1: Super heavy shells are irrelevant for assessment of a gun. Super-heavy shells just give you less performance against vertical protection and lower accuracy dues to the less fleet trajectories. In return you get a bit better performance against horizontal protection.
I think 33cm guns can be competitive against most pre 1912 ships, but the latest generation of ~25kton BBs are a out of their league. However the guns Firanji got are L40s, and those are starting to get dated.

2: I think it is good enough, and I think that "Good enough" is a good thing to main for, especially for smaller nations.

3: Not much, getting larger guns would be nice, but I would be worried that it would make the ship cost-prohibitive large. 

house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   21,172 t light; 22,602 t standard; 23,836 t normal; 24,823 t full load
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 30.00 m  x 7.72 m
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.67 : 1

My concerns with this design are pretty much the same I mentioned above.
She is far too wide, reducing her beam with 4-5m would save you thousands of tonnes of weight. Reducing her length could also save significant weight.

Armament:
      10 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm

The barbarettes are a large and exposed part of the ship, 15cm is far too little protection for these vital parts of the ship.

[Korpen]

As Firanji tech (well, gun tech) do not really allow for a true 1st rate BB, have you considered trying to build a really good 2nd rate instead?

Now I am going to be a bit rude and post designs into someone else thread. But It is just to show what I mean. They both provide good firepower in a very compact format.

Umma III, Firanji Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   16 000 t light; 16 992 t standard; 17 940 t normal; 18 699 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   518,38 ft / 518,38 ft x 82,02 ft x 25,59 ft (normal load)
   158,00 m / 158,00 m x 25,00 m  x 7,80 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,99" / 330 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 102,31lbs / 500,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      14 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 81,57lbs / 37,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (10 mounts), 11,46lbs / 5,20kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10 098 lbs / 4 580 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   190,29 ft / 58,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Upper:   4,13" / 105 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   29,53 ft / 9,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   4,13" / 105 mm   2,95" / 75 mm      2,95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 13,58" / 345 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26 253 shp / 19 585 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 707 tons

Complement:
   774 - 1 007

Cost:
   £2,876 million / $11,502 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 262 tons, 7,0 %
   Armour: 7 072 tons, 39,4 %
      - Belts: 2 941 tons, 16,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 536 tons, 3,0 %
      - Armament: 1 732 tons, 9,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 663 tons, 9,3 %
      - Conning Tower: 201 tons, 1,1 %
   Machinery: 978 tons, 5,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 307 tons, 35,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 940 tons, 10,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 380 tons, 2,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21 150 lbs / 9 593 Kg = 19,3 x 13,0 " / 330 mm shells or 4,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 4,7 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 15,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,577
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,77 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,76 ft / 4,20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 30 437 Square feet or 2 828 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 751 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,28
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Removal of the TB and some and some general shrinkage of the ship in various areas allows size to be reduced a further 2000 ton.

Umma IV, Firanji Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   14 000 t light; 14 949 t standard; 15 822 t normal; 16 520 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   492,13 ft / 492,13 ft x 75,46 ft x 25,59 ft (normal load)
   150,00 m / 150,00 m x 23,00 m  x 7,80 m

Armament:
      8 - 12,99" / 330 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1 102,31lbs / 500,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      14 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 81,57lbs / 37,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (10 mounts), 11,46lbs / 5,20kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10 098 lbs / 4 580 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   295,28 ft / 90,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   196,85 ft / 60,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Upper:   3,74" / 95 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   5,51" / 140 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   3,74" / 95 mm   2,76" / 70 mm      2,76" / 70 mm
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 12,80" / 325 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 24 597 shp / 18 349 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 571 tons

Complement:
   704 - 916

Cost:
   £2,747 million / $10,988 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 262 tons, 8,0 %
   Armour: 5 758 tons, 36,4 %
      - Belts: 2 699 tons, 17,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 620 tons, 10,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 265 tons, 8,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 174 tons, 1,1 %
   Machinery: 916 tons, 5,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 683 tons, 35,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 822 tons, 11,5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 380 tons, 2,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 523 lbs / 7 495 Kg = 15,1 x 13,0 " / 330 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 16,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 48 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,583
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,52 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,76 ft / 4,20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 26 725 Square feet or 2 483 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 746 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,47
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[sgdn]

With 380mm guns 8 is about all I can get on with 170m of length unless I upgrade a chunk infrastructure

And lastly any one offering to sell firanji a 380mm or there about gun design around 1717 h1?

replaced messed up ship designwith ship below

house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   25,789 t light; 27,415 t standard; 28,817 t normal; 29,938 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 114.83 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 35.00 m  x 8.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,836 lbs / 6,730 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36,204 shp / 27,008 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,523 tons

Complement:
   1,105 - 1,437

Cost:
   £4.335 million / $17.341 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,855 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 11,037 tons, 38.3 %
      - Belts: 5,059 tons, 17.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 878 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armament: 2,262 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,559 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 279 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,349 tons, 4.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,149 tons, 38.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,028 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,539 lbs / 17,935 Kg = 23.6 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,842 Square feet or 4,352 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 193 lbs/sq ft or 944 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform



Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons
250t fire con
50t flag stuff
25t big radio
75t tbd [any suggestions?]


Korpen I like the picture of umma3 was that the intended follow on to the umma 1/hajii 2 class?

[The Rock Doctor]

You need to expand the belt length slightly.  Note that you do only have 325 t set aside for miscellaneous weight.

Somebody's going to point at your barbette armor soon...

As for 380mm guns, GC couldn't consider such a thing until 1918.

[sgdn]

dam ok replaced the ship with the right one 

and here is a cheper [for a given value of cheaper] alternative

house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   23,583 t light; 25,164 t standard; 26,491 t normal; 27,552 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 108.27 ft x 25.59 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 33.00 m  x 7.80 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (8 mounts), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,862 lbs / 6,741 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 34,103 shp / 25,441 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,388 tons

Complement:
   1,037 - 1,349

Cost:
   £4.195 million / $16.781 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,858 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 9,961 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 4,297 tons, 16.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 878 tons, 3.3 %
      - Armament: 2,109 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,413 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 264 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,271 tons, 4.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,093 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,908 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,114 lbs / 15,927 Kg = 21.0 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,165 Square feet or 4,103 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 893 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons
250t fire con
50t flag stuff
25t big radio
75t tbd [any suggestions?]

[P3D]

You could increase draught to ~29' and reduce beam a bit.

[Carthaginian]

But how good would a 30' draft be for coastal work?
This isn't a ship going to be deployed in a battleline on the high seas- it's the centerpiece of a coastal fleet. I'd go with two of something more like Korpen's suggestion before one of the larger ships.

[Borys]

I'm also impressed with the 16000 Korpen design. A three-strong squadron of such ships is 48 BP. And they would make any pair of 24K ships pause.
Borys

[miketr]

I guess the big question is what do you see the role for a big BB is?  Also how many are you going to build?

Michael

[sgdn]

the role is to A be as scary and B shell stuff coastal abilitys are prefered due to the nature of the firanjian fleet idealy i would build  to work as 1 pair and one other to replace the older battle ships in the fleet

house , firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   18,309 t light; 19,405 t standard; 20,520 t normal; 21,412 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   541.34 ft / 541.34 ft x 98.43 ft x 24.51 ft (normal load)
   165.00 m / 165.00 m x 30.00 m  x 7.47 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      10 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (6 mounts), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      10 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10,408 lbs / 4,721 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 115

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     16.40 ft / 5.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   2.95" / 75 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   22.97 ft / 7.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 28,544 shp / 21,294 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,008 tons

Complement:
   856 - 1,114

Cost:
   £3.080 million / $12.322 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,301 tons, 6.3 %
   Armour: 7,784 tons, 37.9 %
      - Belts: 3,927 tons, 19.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 659 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 1,654 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,354 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 191 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,063 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,710 tons, 37.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,211 tons, 10.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29,170 lbs / 13,231 Kg = 26.6 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.28 ft / 4.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,185 Square feet or 3,455 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 799 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons
250t fire con
50t flag stuff
25t big radio
125t tbd [any suggestions?]

[Korpen]

Displacement:
   18,309 t light; 19,405 t standard; 20,520 t normal; 21,412 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   541.34 ft / 541.34 ft x 98.43 ft x 24.51 ft (normal load)
   165.00 m / 165.00 m x 30.00 m  x 7.47 m

You seem to really love to give the ships excessive beam. Remember that if you type in a tonnage number manually in the "displacement-normal" on the hull page in springsharp you fix the normal weight. If you do this and then reduce beam to say 26m you will se the available hull strength skyrocket. The "default" in springsharp is to fix the block coefficient, which will result in changes to displacement if one change dimension of the ship. 

[Jefgte]

I agree with Korpen, you have exessive beam & a Length to Beam Ratio: 5.50 - short.

IMO, for that kind of BB, 28m is certainly the max.


;)

[sgdn]

news to me ? thanks

tryed it  results are the torpedo protection sinks like a rock or the stabilty goes

this is the best of the bunch 27 meter of beam [whats wrong with nearly 2/1 leanth beam ratios]

house , firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   18,248 t light; 19,344 t standard; 20,520 t normal; 21,461 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   541.34 ft / 541.34 ft x 88.58 ft x 20.18 ft (normal load)
   165.00 m / 165.00 m x 27.00 m  x 6.15 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      10 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (6 mounts), 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      10 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10,408 lbs / 4,721 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 115

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     16.40 ft / 5.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   2.95" / 75 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   22.97 ft / 7.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 30,816 shp / 22,989 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,117 tons

Complement:
   856 - 1,114

Cost:
   £3.096 million / $12.386 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,301 tons, 6.3 %
   Armour: 7,903 tons, 38.5 %
      - Belts: 3,947 tons, 19.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 659 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 1,654 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,453 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 191 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,148 tons, 5.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,446 tons, 36.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,272 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,919 lbs / 13,117 Kg = 26.4 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.742
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.28 ft / 4.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,894 Square feet or 3,706 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 736 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons
250t fire con
50t flag stuff
25t big radio
125t tbd [any suggestions?]