firanji battleships formaly cdbb/small battle ship + new battle ship

[maddox]

The Middle Kingdom uses ACM derivated 330mm's.

And the Anuhuac did too.

[Logi]

Yes, I haven't acutally made a ship using 13" guns yet but you see it alot on my design thread.

[mentat]

I like the changes - but inclined to think 8 x 13" is 'sufficient' gunpower and either 4x2 or 323 will allow a more balanced ship on this tonnage - scope to increase Barbette armour/speed/range

On the secondaries - agree they are best spread out amidships - but abreast superstructure rather than the main turrets, probably best way to ensure some have good forward and rear arcs is to make several deck mounted rather than hull casemate

As to the Funnels  -  mmm quaint .... ;)

[sgdn]

few tweeks
i am considering replaceing the main battery with a big morters for a bombardment version ;D

house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   20,515 t light; 21,856 t standard; 22,981 t normal; 23,882 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 25.26 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 7.70 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,408 lbs / 5,628 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.94" / 100 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 43,562 shp / 32,497 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,026 tons

Complement:
   933 - 1,213

Cost:
   £3.679 million / $14.715 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,551 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 8,060 tons, 35.1 %
      - Belts: 3,269 tons, 14.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 690 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armament: 1,776 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,120 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 206 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,623 tons, 7.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,881 tons, 38.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,466 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,449 lbs / 11,997 Kg = 24.1 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,812 Square feet or 3,606 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 855 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.38
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


are ther any rules for rockets as in a Calliope on a ship or barge?

[mentat]

The Mortars sound fun - what size do you have in mind? ;D

But actually a smaller dedicated ship with 2-4 Mortars might be more practical for Bombardment - shallower draught + less expensive, more expendable

Some tweaking suggestions on armour scheme:

Looks like 5' of main belt is below wl - could reduce since TB is below

Also TB is quite thick and shallow - should go deeper to protect fully and maybe only need to be 40-50mm to give good prot'n (apart from the top strip (3-4') - 100 mm is useful there

If you save some tons - maybe scope to move to bigger 13" shell - depending on your tech/supplier  :)

[sgdn]

For the mortars as big as I can get hold of ;D

As for guns they are made by firanji so bigger can be done

The first ship will be to this design the 2nd and 3rd will have a mixed triple and double main battery

this calss is intended to form part of the firanjian battle line [do i have a battle line?] show the flag if nessery

house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   19,989 t light; 21,191 t standard; 22,292 t normal; 23,173 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 25.26 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 7.70 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (5 mounts), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4 mounts), 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised guns - superfiring
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10,549 lbs / 4,785 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   17.06 ft / 5.20 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42,426 shp / 31,650 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,982 tons

Complement:
   911 - 1,185

Cost:
   £3.320 million / $13.278 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,319 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 8,307 tons, 37.3 %
      - Belts: 3,883 tons, 17.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 448 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 1,690 tons, 7.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,085 tons, 9.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,581 tons, 7.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,382 tons, 37.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,303 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,794 lbs / 13,061 Kg = 26.3 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.582
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,163 Square feet or 3,545 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 818 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Miscellaneous weights
250t fire con
25t big radio
18t torpedoes 6 ready 12 reloads
25t flag stuff
the rest tbd

well i think i am getting closer

[Jefgte]

8 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (5 mounts), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 4 raised mounts - superfiring

I don't understand the disposition  ???


;)

[sgdn]

fixed
house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   19,808 t light; 21,006 t standard; 22,100 t normal; 22,976 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 25.26 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 7.70 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10,549 lbs / 4,785 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   17.06 ft / 5.20 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42,111 shp / 31,415 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,970 tons

Complement:
   906 - 1,178

Cost:
   £3.306 million / $13.226 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,319 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 8,104 tons, 36.7 %
      - Belts: 3,882 tons, 17.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 448 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 1,499 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,075 tons, 9.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 200 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,569 tons, 7.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,416 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,293 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,588 lbs / 12,967 Kg = 26.1 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.577
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,985 Square feet or 3,529 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 169 lbs/sq ft or 825 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[mentat]

Looking good - and think I am running out of tweak suggestions  :D lol

But with 8 x Main Battery - think a heavier 13" - 1200lb or so would be great

  ? - when do they fit in your construction plans?

[sgdn]

3x3 arrangment with heavyer shells  to be built in 1918 hopefully


house class, firanji bb laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   20,800 t light; 22,163 t standard; 23,298 t normal; 24,207 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 98.43 ft x 25.26 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 30.00 m  x 7.70 m

Armament:
      9 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,577 lbs / 5,705 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   17.06 ft / 5.20 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 43,960 shp / 32,794 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,044 tons

Complement:
   942 - 1,225

Cost:
   £4.360 million / $17.441 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,456 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 8,118 tons, 34.8 %
      - Belts: 3,899 tons, 16.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 448 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 1,395 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,169 tons, 9.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 208 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,638 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,188 tons, 39.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,499 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,784 lbs / 13,056 Kg = 26.3 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.588
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,702 Square feet or 3,688 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 179 lbs/sq ft or 874 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.49
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[sgdn]

Some thing a bit cheaper based on the  hajji class with casemated 140mm guns arranged in pairs on the main deck forming 2 octagons of structure between the turrets to be bilt 1917 if it is built.  well whats the verdict?

should i look towards a 380mm gun for the next battleship class ?

haiji 2b, Firanji Battleship laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   17,957 t light; 18,937 t standard; 20,046 t normal; 20,934 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 23.20 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 7.07 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      10 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 8,047 lbs / 3,650 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Upper:   2.95" / 75 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   19.69 ft / 6.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46,988 shp / 35,053 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,997 tons

Complement:
   842 - 1,095

Cost:
   £3.437 million / $13.748 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,006 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 7,454 tons, 37.2 %
      - Belts: 4,001 tons, 20.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 564 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armament: 1,327 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,374 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 188 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,751 tons, 8.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,346 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,089 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29,218 lbs / 13,253 Kg = 26.6 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.67 ft / 5.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,736 Square feet or 3,506 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 740 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.29
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons
250t firecon
25t big radio
50t flag stuff
75t tbd

[The Rock Doctor]

The 20,000 t version has a 50% heavier broadside - I'd go with it.

[maddox]

I concur Rocky.  The 20 K ship is the more useable one.

[Korpen]

The 20kton is the better one, but just 15cm barbette armour is far too little, need about twice that. You could gain allot of strength by reducing beam to around 25m and add 1m or so more depth.
But I do wonder a bit about the choice of speed? Firanji have two modern 21kts ships and two reasonably usefull pre-dread large cruisers with 23 and 25 kts speed respectively. A 24kts ship would be a very odd fish ion that collection, and the 23 not much better as the extra speed would be wasted when with the other BBs while she would not be fast and powerful enough for independent operations. Think it would be wiser to standardise on say 21 kts and reduce size.

[sgdn]

Ok I have some questions

1 is 330mm guns still with or without super heavy shells competitive
2 as for speed is 21 knts plenty for a battleship
3 with the 2800t house class [3x3] the earliest I can build it is 1918 how does that affect questions 1 and 2

Or I could build this starting 1916 2nd half

house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   21,172 t light; 22,602 t standard; 23,836 t normal; 24,823 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 98.43 ft x 25.33 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 30.00 m  x 7.72 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 13,442 lbs / 6,097 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm     82.02 ft / 25.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     16.40 ft / 5.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   26.25 ft / 8.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 31,490 shp / 23,491 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,221 tons

Complement:
   958 - 1,246

Cost:
   £3.613 million / $14.453 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,551 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 8,836 tons, 37.1 %
      - Belts: 3,749 tons, 15.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 878 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 1,805 tons, 7.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,193 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 211 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,173 tons, 4.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,162 tons, 38.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,663 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,009 lbs / 14,519 Kg = 29.2 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 6.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,150 Square feet or 3,730 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 863 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.45
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons
250t fire con
50t flag stuff
25t big radio
125t tbd [any suggestions?]

I may build one of these to replace Quseir [and make Quseir a museum ship]