firanji battleships formaly cdbb/small battle ship + new battle ship

[Sachmle]

I'd recommend a bit of miscellaneous weight set aside for a long-range wireless, so that she can function as a flagship and communicate with headquarters or detached squadrons.

He did:

25t big radio

Problem: You have 5m of freeboard foreward, but you only have 4.5m of the side armored (4m MB, half above waterline/half below=2m + 2.5m UB) This leaves your entire barbette, including below deck, not protected by anything more than the 15cm armor you've used, which is IMHO to thin anyway. I'd go w/ at least 25cm, if not 30cm for the barbettes.

Question: What is the layout of the 33cm? 5 turrets, majority forward, so 3 on the bow, 2 aft? Which one's are raised? Did you mean for a A (B) Q (X) Y layout? If so try "On centerline, distributed" or make the Q turret it's own section so you have 4 turrets, centerline ends/majority forward/even 2 raised mounts and 1 turret, centerline amidships.

Question 2: Where are you planning on putting all those 14cm guns? 14 on deck level on the sides...did you mean for those to be hull mounted? And the 10 centerline distributed, should they be raised as in on top of the 33cm turrets? If not, where do they go?

Comment: She's short..and fat. Increase length to the 170m max for a type 2 slip/DD and shoot for a 6/1 L/B ratio.

Comment 2: Above water TT on a BB are a REALLY BAD IDEA. They get in the way of firing arcs and are just annoying. 2 tubes per side below water and maybe 1 in the bow would probably work better.

[The Rock Doctor]

D'oh!

[sgdn]

mark 3 the picture is rougher that hell but you get the idea


house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   19,001 t light; 20,317 t standard; 21,619 t normal; 22,660 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 88.58 ft x 25.52 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 27.00 m  x 7.78 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,433 lbs / 5,640 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 29,183 shp / 21,771 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,343 tons

Complement:
   890 - 1,158

Cost:
   £3.474 million / $13.894 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,554 tons, 7.2 %
   Armour: 7,690 tons, 35.6 %
      - Belts: 3,486 tons, 16.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,032 tons, 9.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,974 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 197 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,087 tons, 5.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,270 tons, 38.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,618 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,217 lbs / 11,892 Kg = 23.9 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,135 Square feet or 3,357 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 170 lbs/sq ft or 830 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weights: 400t
0t little radio [included due to post 1/1/13 laydown date]
25t big radio
24t 24 torpedos 18" 12 ready 12 spare
25t flag spaces
25t climatization
25t medical
25t more pumps 
250t firecon

[mentat]

The key element that is still missing - is Torpedo Defence system

I assume she is to be your prize asset for national defence - as well as national pride

So the achilles heel is underwater - any likely adversary is bound to focus on this - mines, torpedoes ...

Currently only 3.2 torps required to sink your GBP3.5m flagship

I notice the earlier design was 98' beam which had more scope for a TDS.

If you want to explore this I would guess a 40mm bulkhead and 20' would make a big difference - you can easily model alternatives

If the budget is a limit - you can always consider dropping the 3rd twin forward (although it does give it a nice distinctive Nelrod look upfront!)

Other altves to consider vs the weight of 10 vs 8 guns are - a) barbette armour - possibly a little thin (but depends on envisaged opposition) b) engine power - she is quite slow for this era (I guess intended more for for defence than attack) - but any more speed in manouvering vs. faster attacking forces is also useful

When you've decided - minor points on the drawing:

- forward sheer is useful - but might look better if slope is a bit more gradual

- sheer at the stern is a bit more than required and looks a bit odd on the last pic

- the casements are very concentrated - could spread out - for functional as well as aesthetic reasons

- do you have options on some more contemporary funnels - only need 1 or most 2 - the current ones are out of date and definitely spoil her otherwise fine appearance :)

[Logi]

she is quite slow for this era (I guess intended more for for defence than attack) - but any more speed in manouvering vs. faster attacking forces is also useful

Battleships of this era (N-verse) are usually slow at 20 kts. Just some people like me like designing them a little faster.

[Sachmle]

she is quite slow for this era (I guess intended more for for defence than attack) - but any more speed in manouvering vs. faster attacking forces is also useful

Battleships of this era (N-verse) are usually slow at 20 kts. Just some people like me like designing them a little faster.

Atlantic Battleships are slower at ~20kts..Pacific (Where Firanj is) BBs are ~23kts.

[sgdn]

mark 4  well?

house class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   20,190 t light; 21,510 t standard; 22,619 t normal; 23,507 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 25.72 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 7.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,240 lbs / 5,552 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.94" / 100 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42,724 shp / 31,872 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,997 tons

Complement:
   921 - 1,198

Cost:
   £3.624 million / $14.496 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,530 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 8,000 tons, 35.4 %
      - Belts: 3,265 tons, 14.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 690 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 1,761 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,081 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 204 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,592 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,668 tons, 38.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,429 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,978 lbs / 11,784 Kg = 23.7 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,092 Square feet or 3,539 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 844 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Miscellaneous weights: 400t
0t little radio [included due to post 1/1/13 laydown date]
25t big radio
18t 18 torpedos 18" 6ready 12spare
25t flag spaces [right amount?]
20t climatization [right amount?]
20t medical  [right amount?]
20t more pumps  [right amount?]
250t firecon
22t accommodations improvments  [right amount?]

mark 4.5 means whating a year though
house class , firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   21,158 t light; 22,510 t standard; 23,654 t normal; 24,570 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 25.79 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 7.86 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,382 lbs / 5,616 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.94" / 100 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 44,377 shp / 33,105 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,061 tons

Complement:
   953 - 1,239

Cost:
   £3.718 million / $14.872 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,548 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 8,631 tons, 36.5 %
      - Belts: 3,509 tons, 14.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 753 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 2,030 tons, 8.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,130 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 210 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,653 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,926 tons, 37.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,496 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27,564 lbs / 12,503 Kg = 25.1 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 18.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.605
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.92 ft / 5.16 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,993 Square feet or 3,623 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 853 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.38
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Miscellaneous weights: 400t
0t little radio [included due to post 1/1/13 laydown date]
25t big radio
18t 18 torpedos 18" 6ready 12spare
25t flag spaces [right amount?]
20t climatization [right amount?]
20t medical  [right amount?]
20t more pumps  [right amount?]
250t firecon
22t accommodations improvments  [right amount?]

[RAM]

Unless something prevents it that I can't see in the pic, A, Q and Z turrets won't be able to turn freely. They all have structures too near behind them.

I'd also be worried about the secondaries. Casemated guns' arcs of fire are quite restricted, and they are almost all in the midships section. While those guns won't have any trouble firing at targets on the broadsides, any light fast combatant coming towards the ship from the fore or stern will be a serious problem as most of those secondaries can't fire directly fore or aft. So I'd look to improve the secondary guns' all-round coverage by placing them more distributed along the ship.

[sgdn]

right so the first ship will be the 5x2 then following ships will be 3x2 2x2  there shouldnt be a 75mm on the c turret on the 5x2 ship and both pic are still rougher than hell



house class , firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   21,114 t light; 22,451 t standard; 23,594 t normal; 24,509 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 25.72 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 7.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,214 lbs / 5,540 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.94" / 100 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 44,315 shp / 33,059 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,058 tons

Complement:
   951 - 1,237

Cost:
   £3.686 million / $14.745 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,527 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 8,604 tons, 36.5 %
      - Belts: 3,509 tons, 14.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 753 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 2,004 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,130 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 209 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,651 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,932 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,480 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27,789 lbs / 12,605 Kg = 25.3 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 18.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.605
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.92 ft / 5.16 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,993 Square feet or 3,623 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 854 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.38
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform




house 2 class, firanji bb laid down 1916

Displacement:
   20,190 t light; 21,510 t standard; 22,619 t normal; 23,507 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 95.14 ft x 25.72 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.00 m  x 7.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      14 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,240 lbs / 5,552 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.94" / 100 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42,724 shp / 31,872 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,997 tons

Complement:
   921 - 1,198

Cost:
   £3.624 million / $14.496 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,530 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 8,000 tons, 35.4 %
      - Belts: 3,265 tons, 14.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 690 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 1,761 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,081 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 204 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,592 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,668 tons, 38.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,429 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,978 lbs / 11,784 Kg = 23.7 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,092 Square feet or 3,539 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 844 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Miscellaneous weights: 400t same on both ships
0t little radio [included due to post 1/1/13 laydown date]
25t big radio
18t 18 torpedos 18" 6ready 12spare
25t flag spaces [right amount?]
20t climatization [right amount?]
20t medical  [right amount?]
20t more pumps  [right amount?]
250t firecon
22t accommodations improvments  [right amount?]

[The Rock Doctor]

There's no fixed requirement for climatization/crew comfort/medical/pumps.  Many of us don't bother with one or more of these.

25 t is probably a good starting point for capital ship flag facilities, but some go higher.

[Guinness]

Yeah, not everyone needs a granite-lined wine cellar...

I'm generally content to cover the basics, including 250t FC, 25t long range wireless, and 50t for Flag Accommodations, which includes (in my mind) an extra boat or two, and some space set aside for the admiral and his staff.

Others have set aside tonnage for climate control (which is premature in our era IMHO), extra damage control measures, etc. These are all role-playing items essentially, aren't required, and are generally just guesses by the designer as to how much that equipment ought to weigh. I'm personally content to just allocate all that extra weight to "reserve".

I think someone around here put some misc weight in a ship for a swimming pool at some point recently, but I might be remembering wrong...

[miketr]

I think Firanji and Iberia are the only nations that have used 13" guns (could be wrong there but I don't recall seeing any others) so you might want to look at this ship.

She has 330L45's.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=672.msg31007#msg31007

Michael

[sgdn]

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,195 Square feet or 3,641 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 867 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94     
- Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Isn't that bad
Also it is 2,000tons more but the better amour and more guns I may have to work on some thing like that

So 400t is a bit ott for this ship

By the way the rules are written its 250t fro a battleship size fir com system witch presumably includes a reasonable number of directors
But if its 250t per director then that means on later battle ships there could be 1000t of fire con alone before the rest of the ship 2 for the main battery 2 for the secondary batteries

what every ones thoughts on 2x3+2x2 over 5x2

[Carthaginian]

The only thing I'd change is to remove the casemated gun from the barbette... that's bad place to put a weak point, they should be the most heavily armored part of the ship.

SGDN,
I use a 3(2)=3 layout on my newest battleships.

[miketr]

By the way the rules are written its 250t fro a battleship size fir com system witch presumably includes a reasonable number of directors
But if its 250t per director then that means on later battle ships there could be 1000t of fire con alone before the rest of the ship 2 for the main battery 2 for the secondary batteries

250 tons is enough BUT the battle of the sea of crete in 1912 saw the Hapsburg DN loose its fire control center to a freak hit and blind her.  Following that all Iberian design will have additional fire control setups.  In effect there will be two fully functional control / plotting centers.  I assume that the 250/100/25 tons provides for multiple directors and local directors.

what every ones thoughts on 2x3+2x2 over 5x2

I favor 5x2.  The problem with 2x3+2x2 is you need to R&D two sets of turret mounts and thats an additional expense.

Michael