Confederate 2nd Class Cruiser

[Carthaginian]

Another design to be picked apart...

I wanted something with a respectable punch, decent speed, and good armor. Lack of proper superfiring tech means that I have to use en echelon wing turrets to get all my guns to fire broadside. The casemate 4.85" mounts are not in their final places- I'm not too good at drawing casemates. They were just placeholders to see if they'd all fit.

EDIT: I fixed the turrets, they should be able to swing into opposite arcs now. Relocated the funnels to centerline. Changed all secondaries to 4.0".




Mobile, Confederate States of America 2nd Class cruiser laid down 1906

Displacement:
   7,084 t light; 7,478 t standard; 8,588 t normal; 9,476 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   545.00 ft / 545.00 ft x 58.00 ft x 18.50 ft (normal load)
   166.12 m / 166.12 m x 17.68 m  x 5.64 m

Armament:
      4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1906 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     20 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,373 lbs / 1,076 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.25" / 133 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   2.30" / 58 mm   245.00 ft / 74.68 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.25" / 133 mm   2.30" / 58 mm      5.25" / 133 mm
   2nd:   5.25" / 133 mm   2.30" / 58 mm      5.25" / 133 mm
   3rd:   2.30" / 58 mm   2.30" / 58 mm      2.30" / 58 mm
   4th:   0.53" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.30" / 58 mm, Conning tower: 5.25" / 133 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,587 shp / 14,612 Kw = 22.25 kts
   Range 11,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,998 tons

Complement:
   445 - 579

Cost:
   £0.675 million / $2.701 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 297 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 2,280 tons, 26.5 %
      - Belts: 1,064 tons, 12.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 261 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 908 tons, 10.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,272 tons, 14.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,136 tons, 36.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,504 tons, 17.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,714 lbs / 6,220 Kg = 65.0 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.46

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.514
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.35 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,333 Square feet or 1,982 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 475 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.09
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


PS: I apologize about the drawings... my skills aren't the best, and the scale is small, 1 pixel = 1 foot

[Ithekro]

Damnation...looks like my own monsters are being built just in time. (perhaps...mine will take longer to complete).

Do you have cross deck fire for your prected cruisers? (is that on the chart anymore?)  Because I'd think that might translate here for the top version.  (Arcadia's wing turrets are side by side, roughly.  French style)

[Carthaginian]

LOL... I'd hardly call it a monster, and your ships are some kind of mucho faster than mine, but thanks for the complement. I think for the price they would be fairly effective, especially if I keep them in the Gulf.

I don't see cross-deck fire for PC's on the chart, and I have it for AC's- which this really is; it's a small AC, but I think it meets the qualifications nonetheless.
(Of course, I'm not entirely sure what those qualifications are here.)

EDIT: I think I'll be going with the bottom design if it's allowed, it just looks cleaner.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I see this as a AC.
Legal under the rules, and absolutely ahistroical.


ADDED LATER:
A rare example of well placed casemattes - NOT under the Main Guns.
Borys

[Carthaginian]

Thanks for the complement on the casemates.

It just doesn't make sense to cut holes in the armor right in front of the areas that you want to protect the most. So I moved them away from the main guns.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Not only is the "hull-barbette" route weakened, it hinders operations of the casematte guns - half-suffocated gunners ain't that effective ...

On second thought - maybe the CSS Mobile is the herald of a revolution in cruiser armament layout? Like the HMS Invincible? All turret Main Gun Armoured Cruisers were not unknown, even though the calibres were mixed.

BTW - I like the 7,5 calibre :)

Borys

[Carthaginian]

Ahoj!
Not only is the "hull-barbette" route weakened, it hinders operations of the casematte guns - half-suffocated gunners ain't that effective ...

On second thought - maybe the CSS Mobile is the herald of a revolution in cruiser armament layout? Like the HMS Invincible? All turret Main Gun Armoured Cruisers were not unknown, even though the calibres were mixed.

Borys

USS Brooklyn was actually the inspiration for this design.
Christened in the 1890's, she had a uniform main armament mounted in both fore-and-aft and wing turrets. I simply wondered what a ship made to compete with the Brooklyn would have looked like if someone had made the connection between these two facts:

wing turrets can be mounted on the side of a ship with fore-and-aft turrets
wing turrets mounted en echelon can fire into either broadside

Both designs were being used at the time- en echelon turrets on 2nd class battleships and wing turrets on armored cruisers. If you can do both those things on different ships to get separate benefits, I figured why not combine the two features into one ship. It's actually intended to be the 'revolutionary design' that sets the standard for Confederate cruiser, and then battleship, design for at least the next decade.

After all... why not try something risky on a cruiser, it's cheaper than risking it on an expensive battleship.


After considering it, I guess that she is HMS Invincible shrunk down a few sizes smaller and a year too early. She's meant to kill lighter ships, outrun bigger ones, and in general not get involved in a line of battle.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Actualy, in terms of dates the CSS Mobile and HMS Invincible go neck to neck. The Birtish ships were laid down in February-April 1906, meaning their designs were probably finalised in late 1905.

Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

Not bad, not bad - the "All or Nothing" armor scheme is somewhat forward-thinking, though. 

[Borys]

Ahoj!
AON is 1910 BB/AC tech.
Not sure is CSA has it.
I can't find it's tech in the Country section.

Borys

[Carthaginian]

Oh... OK, I have to have a tech for that.
I'll edit the design and re-post it. I don't have 'all or nothing' armor.
*looks* Shoot, it's a 1910 tech, I guess that no one does. Unfortunately, I was using my previous cruisers as an example, and they had that style armor, and thus I designed along their lines. It'll be fixed by later tonight.

Sorry.  :-[

EDIT: Never mind, a fix was quicker than I thought. She gained a little weight overall, but the changes weren't too drastic.

[Desertfox]

Nice ship, not a match for Antares but then Antares is almost twice as big. However I dont understand the turrent arrangement. Moving one of the wing turrents aft could give you an 8 gun broadside.

[P3D]

Perhaps the tech tree and historical precendence?

[Carthaginian]

Nice ship, not a match for Antares but then Antares is almost twice as big. However I dont understand the turrent arrangement. Moving one of the wing turrents aft could give you an 8 gun broadside.

The gun tubes can elevate sufficiently to allow them to swing-cross deck now. It looks tight, but I think it should fit. If not, I can move the boiler rooms slightly farther back to allow for a bit more offset.

Perhaps the tech tree and historical precendence?

Tech Tree:

BB/AC Architecture
1904 Advanced (+1): All-big-gun ship with wing turrets, improved turret hydraulics,
Torpedo Bulkheads

1906 Oil-firing boilers
     allows bunkers with larger than 10% percentage for oil

Naval Propulsion
1902 Advanced (+1): Engine year 1905, Max. Turbine power 5000HP/Shaft,
        Direct-drive Turbines

Armor technology
Advanced     0.95   1.05   0.85   1.15 ...Krupp Cemented 1900


Historical precedent I have already explained. I have the twin mount for the 7.5", and the rest was just looking at the U.S.S. Brooklyn (1893) and the H.M.S. Colossus (1882) and asking "Why can't the wing turrets on the Brooklyn be arranged like the ones on Colossus so they can fire cross-deck as well?"

Apparently, I hit upon it about the same time the RN did.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
You have to spread them out. With 15 degree elevation you won't get clearance.

You can blunder and do it first the RN way - with very narrow crossbecking arcs. Or if your designers are geniuses, you can do it like on the German BCs. But the first class being not exactly perfect would be nice.

Borys