Logi's Design Studies

[Logi]

Concept study for a heavily armored Cruiser. As there is no value for a 9-10" gun over a 8.27" gun, I've gone with the smaller gun but mounted more barrels. As the Deutschland managed triple 11" on 72ft beam, I expect quadruple 8.27" to be possible on the same beam.

It has enough guns to HE heavily armored ships and enough armor to take punishment in return. It has a large secondary to swat screen ships as well. It has a lower speed as a function, but the ship isn't intended to be a chaser.

Cruiser Concept Study,  Heavy Cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
   13,000 t light; 13,556 t standard; 14,837 t normal; 15,862 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 72.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 21.95 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      12 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (3x4 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (10x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,446 lbs / 2,016 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   356.00 ft / 108.51 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.50" / 216 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 67,892 shp / 50,647 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,306 tons

Complement:
   671 - 873

Cost:
   £3.393 million / $13.573 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 556 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 4,549 tons, 30.7 %
      - Belts: 2,334 tons, 15.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 929 tons, 6.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,248 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 39 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,303 tons, 15.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,291 tons, 35.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,837 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,232 lbs / 8,270 Kg = 64.5 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.94 ft / 5.47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,987 Square feet or 2,507 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 637 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Main belt is sloped 20 degrees, actual belt height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 13.5" at the top to 4.5" at the bottom. LOS thickness at waterline is 9.56" (243mm).

[Logi]

Alternative

Cruiser Concept Study,  Heavy Cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
   13,500 t light; 14,131 t standard; 15,444 t normal; 16,494 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 76.00 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 23.16 m  x 7.47 m

Armament:
      16 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x4 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (10x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 5,576 lbs / 2,529 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   356.00 ft / 108.51 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.85" / 225 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 52,205 shp / 38,945 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,363 tons

Complement:
   692 - 900

Cost:
   £3.562 million / $14.246 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 697 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 5,130 tons, 33.2 %
      - Belts: 2,347 tons, 15.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,157 tons, 7.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,586 tons, 10.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,771 tons, 11.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,602 tons, 36.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,944 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,672 lbs / 8,923 Kg = 69.6 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.528
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.24 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,573 Square feet or 2,655 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 674 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Main belt is sloped 20 degrees, actual belt height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 13.5" at the top to 4.5" at the bottom. LOS thickness at waterline is 9.56" (243mm).

[mentat]

  - interesting - especially as the protection vs. speed balance is unusual

       -  would have expected 30 knots and less thick armour e.g. 6/7" belt rather than 9"

  - some reason why rather slow + very heavily protected for their size? - what do you see the likely opposition as ?

[Logi]

6"/7" Belt protects nothing over a 4" belt. A 6"/7" is, therefore unnecessary weight. Also the armor tapers from 13.5" to 4.5". So it is, in actuality, much thicker than 9" above the waterline.

As for it's opposition, it could be anything. It doesn't really matter. The ships, by existence, force control on a portion of the sea. By doing so, it can make the enemy come towards it instead of chasing.In other words, it does sea-lane control.

If it were to fight a cruiser, say the Wheeler. The Wheeler would be forced to engage and in such a situation, be hard pressed to take advantage of its speed and pull a victory. Of course, the Wheeler can choose not to engage, but that just allows continued control of that portion of the sea.

By extension of it's heavy armor and high volume of fire, it can also serve in the battleline. It would not be slugging with battleships, but could effectively keep cruisers and small ships at bay.

[mentat]

i like the concept - have looked at something similar - but kept armament at 8 main battery - 10/11"

Re Belt thickness - agree 6/7" no more useful than 4" vs Big stuff - but vs 8/9" guns - gives some protection at mdm/longer range?

[Logi]

Again, it's not 9" of armor, it's a tapering belt.

7/9" 6/7" is still useless. The range at which 6"/7" doesn't get penetrated by a 8"/9" is outside of spotting and most likely, FCS range. So really, it's either 9"> or 4"~3".

The problem with larger guns is that a 8.27" gun isn't likely to penetrate just as a 11" gun won't penetrate a heavily armored ship. Hence, going for the higher volume of fire and RoF (easier to range and rapid fire). Also, by putting 11"/10" guns on such a ship, you would be forcing the ship into a specific sort of role. As of now, this ship can be a escort, cruiser/tb/dd killer, etc.

Also I'm not sure if the same protection etc. could be made with 11" guns on the same weight.

[Logi]

My interpretation of the 13.5" Study using Quad and Twin fusion (to achieve the odd number of 18 barrels).

This one is more form fitting.

13.5 Inch Quad Turret Study, CSA Battleship Turret Study (Logi Version) laid down 1920

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 37,410 t standard; 39,928 t normal; 41,943 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   787.40 ft / 787.40 ft x 104.99 ft (Bulges 111.55 ft) x 28.87 ft (normal load)
   240.00 m / 240.00 m x 32.00 m (Bulges 34.00 m)  x 8.80 m

Armament:
      16 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline aft
      18 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.19lbs / 37.73kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 28,497 lbs / 12,926 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.7" / 272 mm   510.00 ft / 155.45 m   17.26 ft / 5.26 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1.50" / 38 mm   510.00 ft / 155.45 m   32.15 ft / 9.80 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   3rd:   1.50" / 38 mm         -         3.00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 53,973 shp / 40,264 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,533 tons

Complement:
   1,411 - 1,835

Cost:
   £9.387 million / $37.549 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,955 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 11,360 tons, 28.5 %
      - Belts: 4,042 tons, 10.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 910 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 2,900 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,205 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 302 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,887 tons, 4.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,398 tons, 46.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,928 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52,420 lbs / 23,778 Kg = 42.6 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 8.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 18.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.551
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.21 ft / 6.16 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 57,751 Square feet or 5,365 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 233 lbs/sq ft or 1,139 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.18
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Arrangement: Quad - SF Quad - Fwd Bridge - Quad - Aft Bridge - Quad - Twin

Main belt armor sloped 20 degrees, giving a vertical height of 16.5 feet. Relative thickness to a 90 degree impact is 11.39 inches.

Misc Weight (400 tons):
250 tons fire control system
25 tons radar
25 tons long range wireless
25 tons night fighting gear
25 tons crane and catapult for floatplane
10 tons 2x floatplanes
40 tons reserve

This version is distinctly more Logi.

13.5 Inch Quad Turret Study, CSA Battleship Turret Study (Logi Version) laid down 1920

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 37,238 t standard; 39,750 t normal; 41,760 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   787.40 ft / 787.40 ft x 105.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   240.00 m / 240.00 m x 32.00 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      16 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (10x2 guns), 83.19lbs / 37.73kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 25,664 lbs / 11,641 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   510.00 ft / 155.45 m   17.26 ft / 5.26 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   510.00 ft / 155.45 m   32.15 ft / 9.80 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.7" / 272 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 53,927 shp / 40,230 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,522 tons

Complement:
   1,406 - 1,829

Cost:
   £8.817 million / $35.269 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,668 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 13,056 tons, 32.8 %
      - Belts: 4,920 tons, 12.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 910 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 2,733 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,393 tons, 11.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 100 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,886 tons, 4.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,990 tons, 42.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,750 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55,305 lbs / 25,086 Kg = 45.0 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 8.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.88
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.51 ft / 5.95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 59,361 Square feet or 5,515 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 215 lbs/sq ft or 1,051 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.09
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Main belt armor sloped 20 degrees, giving a vertical height of 16.5 feet. Relative thickness to a 90 degree impact is 13.83 inches.

Misc Weight (400 tons):
250 tons fire control system
25 tons radar
25 tons long range wireless
25 tons night fighting gear
25 tons crane and catapult for floatplane
10 tons 2x floatplanes
40 tons reserve

[Logi]

Maximum battleships, 35kton to 40kton.

Maximum Concept Study,  Heavy Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 37,748 t standard; 40,073 t normal; 41,933 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   600.00 ft / 600.00 ft x 110.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
   182.88 m / 182.88 m x 33.53 m  x 9.75 m

Armament:
     16 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (1x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
     20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 34,304 lbs / 15,560 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   210.00 ft / 64.01 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   35.00 ft / 10.67 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   16.0" / 406 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4.10" / 104 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 43,113 shp / 32,163 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,185 tons

Complement:
   1,415 - 1,840

Cost:
   £14.528 million / $58.112 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,593 tons, 9.0 %
   Armour: 12,750 tons, 31.8 %
      - Belts: 3,944 tons, 9.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,010 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armament: 3,835 tons, 9.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,885 tons, 9.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 76 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,400 tons, 3.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,877 tons, 42.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,073 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 380 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     40,286 lbs / 18,273 Kg = 29.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 17.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.664
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.62 ft / 4.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 51,215 Square feet or 4,758 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 258 lbs/sq ft or 1,261 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Main Deck covers only armored box (390 ft), thus real armor is 4" (102mm) over the 390 ft of the protected box one deck under decklevel. At decklevel there is a 1.5" (38mm) weather deck running through the whole ship.

Main belt sloped 20 degrees, vertical height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 13.5" at the top to 10.5" at the bottom. Main belt is 12" at waterline (LOS thickness 12.8").

Misc Weight (380 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
80 Construction Reserve

Maximum Battleship Concept Study,  Heavy Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
   40,000 t light; 43,203 t standard; 45,770 t normal; 47,824 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   680.00 ft / 680.00 ft x 117.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   207.26 m / 207.26 m x 35.66 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
     24 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
     4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 40,904 lbs / 18,554 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   440.00 ft / 134.11 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   440.00 ft / 134.11 m   35.00 ft / 10.67 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

  - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 45,080 shp / 33,630 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,621 tons

Complement:
   1,563 - 2,033

Cost:
   £17.016 million / $68.063 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4,279 tons, 9.3 %
   Armour: 14,590 tons, 31.9 %
      - Belts: 4,425 tons, 9.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 855 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 4,692 tons, 10.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,508 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 110 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,464 tons, 3.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,315 tons, 42.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,770 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 353 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     47,425 lbs / 21,512 Kg = 34.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 7.8 ft / 2.4 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.81 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.08 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.51 ft / 5.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 60,921 Square feet or 5,660 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 253 lbs/sq ft or 1,236 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Main belt sloped 20 degrees, vertical height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 13.5" at the top to 10.5" at the bottom. Main belt is 12" at waterline (LOS thickness 12.8").

Misc Weight (353 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
53 Construction Reserve

[Delta Force]

The deck seems rather thick for a vessel with 14 inch guns. Also, what kind of turret arrangement is used with the 40k ton ship?

[snip]

The deck seems rather thick for a vessel with 14 inch guns.

With this many 14" guns, its safe to say that she is meant for taken on opponents armed with larger guns. Caried Guns=/=Guns protected against in all cases.

Also, what kind of turret arrangement is used with the 40k ton ship?

My guess would be A(B)C-SS-X(Y)Z with B and Y elevated.

Good lord that is a ton of firepower! On the 35ktoner, what happens if you rip out Q turret and make her faster? Both of these would be ever scarier with more speed, as I think 16x14" is good for a soft kill and hard kills of all but the most heavily armored ships (Valles, Im looking a you ;D)

[Logi]

The deck seems rather thick for a vessel with 14 inch guns.

My ship design philosophy is that is the 15-16" range, the armor on battleships that such ships would face is so high as to render the differences between 15-16" almost nonexistent. (The 14" superheavy has the performance of a 15" at distance, ranges where a 15" penetrates a belt better is too close anyways). This discounts the performance of a 16" superheavy.

So the theory states that instead of wasting the huge weight drain that is the jump from 15" to 16", stick with the lower end and increase the number of barrels. I believe that anything a large battleship would face would be armored to resist large caliber shells, so it's better to have more barrels than a slightly larger gun. Instead of trying to aim for a Hard Kill (which is unlikely anyways), aim for the soft kill or the Golden Twinkie shot.

Also, what kind of turret arrangement is used with the 40k ton ship?

As Snip states, it could be A(B)C-SS-X(Y)Z with B and Y elevated. Originally, since I have a hatred for triangle pyramid arrangements (They make my eyes bleed and French designers melt into jelly in shame), it was to be arranged a la Fuso. However, there is enough space to make both arrangements work.

Good lord that is a ton of firepower! On the 35ktoner, what happens if you rip out Q turret and make her faster? Both of these would be ever scarier with more speed, as I think 16x14" is good for a soft kill and hard kills of all but the most heavily armored ships (Valles, Im looking a you ;D)

I'll work on such a design later in the day.

[Jefgte]

 ???
Not sure that the mid turret is the better choice.
...
IMO Mogami turrets disposition is better.
...
or 4T4 is also exellent.
If you remove the mid turret, you can increase protection.


Jef

[snip]

If you remove the mid turret, you can increase protection

I dont think that you really need to increase protection as much as speed. that would lead to it being more balanced IMO.

[Logi]

A measly +4 knots.

Maximum Concept Study,  Heavy Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 37,348 t standard; 39,664 t normal; 41,517 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   680.00 ft / 680.00 ft x 106.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
   207.26 m / 207.26 m x 32.31 m  x 9.75 m

Armament:
      16 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 27,704 lbs / 12,566 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   440.00 ft / 134.11 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   2.50" / 64 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   440.00 ft / 134.11 m   35.00 ft / 10.67 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.09" / 104 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 77,621 shp / 57,905 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,169 tons

Complement:
   1,404 - 1,826

Cost:
   £13.155 million / $52.622 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,907 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 12,864 tons, 32.4 %
      - Belts: 4,294 tons, 10.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,140 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armament: 3,336 tons, 8.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,994 tons, 10.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 100 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,520 tons, 6.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,322 tons, 41.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,664 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 387 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     44,137 lbs / 20,020 Kg = 32.2 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.602
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.08 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.87 ft / 5.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,810 Square feet or 4,906 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 232 lbs/sq ft or 1,134 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Main Deck covers only armored box (440 ft), thus real armor is 4" (102mm) over the 440 ft of the protected box one deck under decklevel. At decklevel there is a 1.5" (38mm) weather deck running through the whole ship.

Main belt sloped 20 degrees, vertical height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 13.5" at the top to 10.5" at the bottom. Main belt is 12" at waterline (LOS thickness 12.8").

Misc Weight (387 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
87 Construction Reserve

[snip]

I think that the additional 4knts makes it a much more well-rounded design, wile still having the high firepower for both hard and soft kills. I think that the additional speed will make it more of a threat in the strategic and tactical areas due to its ability to chase down older battleships and with desent warning via its spotterplanes, be able to potentialy evade faster ships. Overall, a very very capable opponent that I would be very hesitant to go up against in something of the same size range.