Logi's Design Studies

[Logi]

All forward, none raised. Ship has higher BC than original for that. Beam works, ala Normandie class. I think the previous design is better. The 15" one has 3000tons more for a spot more armor and ~3,000 lb of broadside weight. Granted, the advantage of this over the previous design is that it can fire all forward.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
   20,000 t light; 21,277 t standard; 22,904 t normal; 24,206 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 27.43 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward
      20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 14,477 lbs / 6,567 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   356.00 ft / 108.51 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.54" / 217 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.59" / 66 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 95,672 shp / 71,371 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,929 tons

Complement:
   930 - 1,210

Cost:
   £7.925 million / $31.699 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,532 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 4,974 tons, 21.7 %
      - Belts: 1,869 tons, 8.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,319 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,734 tons, 7.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 3,106 tons, 13.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,038 tons, 43.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,904 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,698 lbs / 11,656 Kg = 18.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.90
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Stern:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.32 ft / 7.11 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,197 Square feet or 3,363 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 193 lbs/sq ft or 940 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.61
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Deck covers only armored box (356 ft), thus real armor is 4" (102mm) over the 356 ft of the protected box. Deck is at waterline level and all machinery, storage, etc. is under the waterline.

Main belt sloped 20 degrees. Actual belt height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 5" at the top to 9" underwater.

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50t Construction Reserve

[Logi]

An interesting opposite:

3 x Twin 14"/45 Superheavy, all at deck level. Back to cruiser size.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
   15,000 t light; 15,965 t standard; 17,329 t normal; 18,420 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 84.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 25.60 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
     6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward
     16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 10,927 lbs / 4,956 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   352.00 ft / 107.29 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.40" / 112 mm      7.50" / 191 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 77,879 shp / 58,098 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,455 tons

Complement:
   754 - 981

Cost:
   £6.058 million / $24.234 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,157 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 3,165 tons, 18.3 %
      - Belts: 1,304 tons, 7.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,239 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 565 tons, 3.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,529 tons, 14.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,829 tons, 45.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,329 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,780 lbs / 8,519 Kg = 13.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.535
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.43 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.75 ft / 6.32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,211 Square feet or 2,900 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 849 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Deck covers only armored box (352 ft), thus real armor is 1.5" (38mm) over the 352 ft of the protected box. Deck is at waterline level and all machinery, storage, etc. is under the waterline.

Main belt sloped 20 degrees. Actual belt height is 16 ft.

Misc Weight (320 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
20t Construction Reserve

[snip]

wow...she is very scary for something on 15,000 tons. of course the second you go up against a ship that can knock holes in that paper-thin armor, I dont see her lasting to long, but taking her antagonist with her is likely

[Logi]

+2kton, much better armor.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 18,008 t standard; 19,465 t normal; 20,630 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 83.50 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 164.59 m x 25.45 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 10,927 lbs / 4,956 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.50" / 191 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      8.20" / 208 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.54" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 83,612 shp / 62,375 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,622 tons

Complement:
   823 - 1,071

Cost:
   £6.373 million / $25.491 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,157 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 4,852 tons, 24.9 %
      - Belts: 1,947 tons, 10.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,394 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,465 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,715 tons, 13.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,927 tons, 40.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,465 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,405 lbs / 9,709 Kg = 15.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.84
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.47 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.83 ft / 0.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.24 ft / 6.47 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,163 Square feet or 2,895 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 833 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.41
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Deck covers only armored box (350 ft), thus real armor is 4" (102mm) over the 350 ft of the protected box. Deck is at waterline level and all machinery, storage, etc. is under the waterline.

Main belt sloped 20 degrees. Actual belt height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 12" at the top to 3" at the bottom. Main belt is 9-8" LOS thick at waterline.

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50t Construction Reserve

[snip]

even better then before 8)

[Logi]

As always, trying to get the "holy grail", having more or equal to 1000 lb broadside weight per tonnage.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
   13,500 t light; 14,416 t standard; 15,698 t normal; 16,724 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   520.00 ft / 520.00 ft x 83.50 ft x 23.90 ft (normal load)
   158.50 m / 158.50 m x 25.45 m  x 7.28 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 10,677 lbs / 4,843 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   2.50" / 64 mm      4.30" / 109 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.04" / 26 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 74,767 shp / 55,776 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,308 tons

Complement:
   700 - 911

Cost:
   £5.754 million / $23.018 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,126 tons, 7.2 %
   Armour: 2,121 tons, 13.5 %
      - Belts: 743 tons, 4.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 766 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 571 tons, 3.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,428 tons, 15.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,525 tons, 47.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,198 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,967 lbs / 7,243 Kg = 11.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.84
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.91 ft / 6.68 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,728 Square feet or 2,762 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 852 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Deck covers only armored box (360 ft), thus real armor is 1.5" (38mm) over the 360 ft of the protected box. Deck is at waterline level and all machinery, storage, etc. is under the waterline.

Misc Weight (300 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless

Slow but it's more than 1000 lb broadside per 1000 tons.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
   12,000 t light; 13,003 t standard; 13,825 t normal; 14,482 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   520.00 ft / 520.00 ft x 82.00 ft x 21.20 ft (normal load)
   158.50 m / 158.50 m x 24.99 m  x 6.46 m

Armament:
      7 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 12,827 lbs / 5,818 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   338.00 ft / 103.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.50" / 216 mm   3.50" / 89 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,244 shp / 16,594 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,479 tons

Complement:
   636 - 828

Cost:
   £5.445 million / $21.778 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,360 tons, 9.8 %
   Armour: 2,710 tons, 19.6 %
      - Belts: 1,179 tons, 8.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 965 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 529 tons, 3.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 722 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,857 tons, 49.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,825 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,973 lbs / 6,338 Kg = 10.2 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.535
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.34 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.35 ft / 3.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,351 Square feet or 2,727 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 895 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Main battery in A-B-Y formation, all at deck level. Twin-Triple --- Twin

Deck covers only armored box (338 ft), thus real armor is 1.5" (38mm) over the 338 ft of the protected box. Deck is at waterline level and all machinery, storage, etc. is under the waterline.

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50 Construction Reserve

[Logi]

Maintains > 1000lb broadside weight per 1000 ton displacement. Features better armor, requires 2 years rather than 1.5 years to build.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 15,140 t standard; 16,037 t normal; 16,755 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 82.00 ft x 23.50 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 24.99 m  x 7.16 m

Armament:
     8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 14,477 lbs / 6,567 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.50" / 165 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.50" / 191 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1.94" / 49 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23,938 shp / 17,858 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,615 tons

Complement:
   712 - 926

Cost:
   £6.170 million / $24.681 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,532 tons, 9.6 %
   Armour: 4,102 tons, 25.6 %
      - Belts: 1,684 tons, 10.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,277 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,100 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 777 tons, 4.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,239 tons, 45.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,037 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,671 lbs / 7,108 Kg = 11.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.539
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.16 ft / 3.71 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 30,598 Square feet or 2,843 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 182 lbs/sq ft or 888 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Deck covers only armored box (350 ft), thus real armor is 3" (76mm) over the 350 ft of the protected box. Deck is at waterline level and all machinery, storage, etc. is under the waterline.

Main belt sloped 20 degrees, vertical height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 10" at the top to 3" at the bottom.

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50 Construction Reserve

[Sachmle]

You are aware that SpringSharp's "Broadside weight" should actually be called "Thrown weight" since it includes the combined weight of ALL guns, not just what can be fired on a single broadside. Your actual "Broadside weight" for this design is 13,825lbs w/o AA or 13,838.5lbs if you include the AA.

[ctwaterman]

Hmmm his 14"/45 shell weight is nearly equal to the 14"/50 shell that Italia designed.   That makes it one heck of a heavy shell but then I build the Italia gun off a real gun the British built for Russia.

I think the Same Ship with 8 or 10 guns in the 10" to 12" range would be a better ship.   Of course I have never been infavor of 6 Guns ships....

So the question is what is this ship expected to engage ?????  If its and 30K+ Ton Battle Ship with 8+ Guns and Battle Ship armor then I know who I am betting on.  It its light Battle Cruisers, heavy cruisers and such then more slightly smaller guns is probably a better idea.

Charles

[Logi]

So the question is what is this ship expected to engage Huh??  If its and 30K+ Ton Battle Ship with 8+ Guns and Battle Ship armor then I know who I am betting on.  It its light Battle Cruisers, heavy cruisers and such then more slightly smaller guns is probably a better idea.

As I said, everything of importance is under the heavy deck at waterline.

You are aware that SpringSharp's "Broadside weight" should actually be called "Thrown weight" since it includes the combined weight of ALL guns, not just what can be fired on a single broadside. Your actual "Broadside weight" for this design is 13,825lbs w/o AA or 13,838.5lbs if you include the AA.

Yes I am aware.


Increase the size, armor, and firepower:

1.01 : Actual Broadside / Tonnage

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 18,390 t standard; 19,394 t normal; 20,197 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 88.00 ft x 26.50 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 26.82 m  x 8.08 m

Armament:
     10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised guns - superfiring
     20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 17,777 lbs / 8,064 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.72" / 196 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 2.59" / 66 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,950 shp / 20,105 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,808 tons

Complement:
   821 - 1,068

Cost:
   £7.502 million / $30.007 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,875 tons, 9.7 %
   Armour: 5,074 tons, 26.2 %
      - Belts: 2,088 tons, 10.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,365 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,574 tons, 8.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 875 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,826 tons, 45.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,394 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,984 lbs / 8,157 Kg = 13.1 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.539
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.16 ft / 3.71 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,825 Square feet or 3,050 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,007 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Deck covers only armored box (350 ft), thus real armor is 4" (102mm) over the 350 ft of the protected box. Deck is at waterline level and all machinery, storage, etc. is under the waterline.

Main belt sloped 20 degrees, vertical height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 13" at the top to 3" at the bottom. Main belt is 8-9" at waterline (LOS thickness 8.8-9.5").

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50 Construction Reserve

[Sachmle]

Effective. You would have to send a real BB to deal with her. That ties up resources that could be used elsewhere. Plus, she would be a nasty convoy escort.

[ctwaterman]

So the question is what is this ship expected to engage Huh??  If its and 30K+ Ton Battle Ship with 8+ Guns and Battle Ship armor then I know who I am betting on.  It its light Battle Cruisers, heavy cruisers and such then more slightly smaller guns is probably a better idea.
As I said, everything of importance is under the heavy deck at waterline.

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

The question is if you are artificially pushing everything deeper into the ship below the water line and below your heavy armor deck you have just significantly reduced the space available on the ship.  You have all your crew quarters, and huge amounts of other necessary functions for the ship hanging out in unprotected parts of the ship. 

Honestly I think everyone would love to fit everything under the armor deck at the waterline.  But I honestly dont think everything will fit in the space available.  The Armored Box concept is a good Idea but It needs to include things above the water line. 

Honestly its a functional ship but it is still not going to win a fight against a modern Battle Ship of twice its own Tonnage.  If for no other reason then hits above the waterline in that paper thin armor are going to create alot of fires, damage uptake trunks all the things that are critical to long term operations.  You just lost all your stored food and your galley all of which have to be above the deck here to make room for your engines, Magazines, and the shell and powder handling rooms surrounding the barbettes.

[Logi]

The question is if you are artificially pushing everything deeper into the ship below the water line and below your heavy armor deck you have just significantly reduced the space available on the ship.  You have all your crew quarters, and huge amounts of other necessary functions for the ship hanging out in unprotected parts of the ship.

You suppose they were supposed to be in a protected portion to begin with? Don't forget the upper two decks are protected by 13" belt sloped @ 20 degrees. Then there's one more deck to deck level.I'ld say it's not so unprotected as you wish to believe.

Honestly its a functional ship but it is still not going to win a fight against a modern Battle Ship of twice its own Tonnage.  If for no other reason then hits above the waterline in that paper thin armor are going to create alot of fires, damage uptake trunks all the things that are critical to long term operations.  You just lost all your stored food and your galley all of which have to be above the deck here to make room for your engines, Magazines, and the shell and powder handling rooms surrounding the barbettes.

You're free to believe what you want. But I should note firmly that the only paper-thin armor here is underwater, where shells don't reach the majority of the time. Maybe you should read the footnotes of my designs, cause I get the feeling you aren't.

[ctwaterman]

The problem is which foot notes on which design there are what 10 designs of the Minimalist BC alone ????

Your Main Belt is between lets see goes back just 1 page 5" and 8" even with improved Krupp KC Armor +10% and Sloped at 20 Degree that doesnt Equal 13" of Vertecal Armor.

The Only Armor I see on these ships that can realistically stop 14" AP Round is the Turrets Fronts.   

The Thinning and thickening of the armor will help a bit but exactly which design are we going to discuss.

Two things sink battle Ships hits at or below the water line that compromise the boyancy of the ship.   Or Fire....

When it come right down to cases barring the Golden BB hit which your 7" Barbettes may or may not allow two ships with equal fire power shooting at each other the larger ship can absorb more damage.

In reality most Battle Ship on Battle Ship fights involve both sides shooting until one takes a hit that compromises its ability to fight and then it retires behind smoke and the cover of a torpedo attack by its  escorts.   Unless the fire gets out of control both sides are likely to go home and need a rebuild.

Now if you want to start talking late 1930's designs the armored boxed scheme and all or nothing designs all of varriations but even the USN who started the trend never tried to carry it as far as you are and I wonder if there is a reason for that.

[Logi]

The problem is which foot notes on which design there are what 10 designs of the Minimalist BC alone Huh?

There's 17 versions and ~15 different variations.

However, the footnotes I mentioned at in the SS quote. The footnotes is specific to the spec of the ships.

.........
Ship space, strength and comments:
  Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.8 %
     - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.4 %
  Waterplane Area: 32,825 Square feet or 3,050 Square metres
  Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
  Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,007 Kg/sq metre
  Hull strength (Relative):
     - Cross-sectional: 0.95
     - Longitudinal: 1.48
     - Overall: 1.00
  Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
  Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Deck covers only armored box (350 ft), thus real armor is 4" (102mm) over the 350 ft of the protected box. Deck is at waterline level and all machinery, storage, etc. is under the waterline.

Main belt sloped 20 degrees, vertical height is 16 ft. Main belt tapers from 13" at the top to 3" at the bottom. Main belt is 8-9" at waterline (LOS thickness 8.8-9.5").

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50 Construction Reserve

Your Main Belt is between lets see goes back just 1 page 5" and 8" even with improved Krupp KC Armor +10% and Sloped at 20 Degree that doesnt Equal 13" of Vertecal Armor.

It tapers from 13" to 3" at the bottom. By waterline, it's tapered to ~9". With improved Krupp KC Armor +10% and Sloped 20 degrees, the equivalent LOS thickness above waterline would be 15.2" - 10.5".

When it come right down to cases barring the Golden BB hit which your 7" Barbettes may or may not allow two ships with equal fire power shooting at each other the larger ship can absorb more damage.

It's 7.72" barbette, and the chance of hitting a barbette head on is slim to none. In addition, curved nature of the barbette means it offers more resistance.

Now if you want to start talking late 1930's designs the armored boxed scheme and all or nothing designs all of variations but even the USN who started the trend never tried to carry it as far as you are and I wonder if there is a reason for that.

But they did. Their armor is tapered (like most navies). The Germans built their strength deck at waterline, which lowered reserve buoyancy, but they did it. The US chose to have more reserve buoyancy and placed their deck higher up. That also mean there was more effective armor against a round going into a barbette (as it would have to penetrate deck before the barbette).

However, the US built all their capital ships with a TDS and lots of STS hull griders. The armor scheme isn't unlike the US, it's just lacking a TDS. The addition of a TDS alone, brings the ship to near the same displacement as the US standards.

The Thinning and thickening of the armor will help a bit but exactly which design are we going to discuss.

You are discussing the latest designs. You mentioned

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
  Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

which is attributed to the 21 kt variations which were the latest few. The previous ones all have room for accommodation and workspaces as excellent.