Logi's Design Studies

[Korpen]

Already layed down and in build.

Hm, think you would have been better of waiting so you could get 1912 generation guns rather then the 1907 ones you will be using now.

[maddox]

"Stupid me?"

[P3D]

The two Chinas are really controversial a bit.

The MK has less coast, but stronger industry - they only need a coastal defence force.
The RRC has a very long coastline, and they cannot afford but a coastal defence force.

How they plan to operate in Burma as the infrastructure cannot really support  more than two corps, that's another question.

[Logi]

Really controversial.

Actually, in all seriousness, IRL south china has always had stronger industry because the southern part of China was always the richest part. The only reason why the capital of IRL China is in Beijing and not south China is because people spread rumors that people living in Guangzhou were beasts and that the place was terrible. In China's long history only one emperor went to visit Guangzhou, he found the place so nice that he wanted to move the capital to there but the officials of the court opposed his decision. The reason why south China is the better part of China is because almost all trade occurs at south China. Guangdong is currently responsible for 12% of the whole nation's GDP, the highest of all provinces. Guangzhou is the 6th richest city in the whole nation. In fact, all the modern thinkers of China emerged from southern China.

The MK is reclusive. They can afford much more but they only want and need a coastal defense force. The RRC is actively engaged in the world, it requires a overseas fleet. You can see the roles are very reversed here.

How they plan to operate in Burma as the infrastructure cannot really support  more than two corps, that's another question.

I have plans for that. Besides, any disadvantage I will have is most often reflected with the Burmese as well.

[Logi]

I have a little question.

How much does one have to pay for MTBs, the generic 1/1000t $ cost?

Also what is the speed of these MTBs? The chart only differentiates between Cruise, Medium, and Fast.

[Logi]

I would appreciate it if someone answered my above question.

Anyways... The latest design is a troop/airplane carrier.

Auxiliary Carrier, RRC Carrier/ Troop Transport laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 17,382 t standard; 18,996 t normal; 20,287 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 90.50 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 167.64 m x 27.58 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8 lbs / 3 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 500

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.25" / 6 mm   550.00 ft / 167.64 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.25" / 6 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm
      -Two Lightweight Hangers

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 97,000 shp / 72,362 Kw = 29.48 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,905 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   808 - 1,051

Cost:
   £2.305 million / $9.219 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 377 tons, 2.0 %
      - Belts: 153 tons, 0.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 146 tons, 0.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 77 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,975 tons, 20.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,397 tons, 28.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,996 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7,250 tons, 38.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,513 lbs / 7,944 Kg = 36,734.2 x 1.0 " / 25 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.445
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.08 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.04 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Stern:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,628 Square feet or 2,938 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 545 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

4356t: 66 Airplanes
2644t: Landing Craft for Troops
100t: Fire Control
50t: Radar
25t: Long-range Wireless
25t: Medical facilties
10t: Climatization
25t: Flag Facilities
10t: Construction Reserve

Basically, with a full squadron of airplanes on the carrier, 1322 troops can be carried for the long term. Without any airplanes on the carrier, 3500 troops can be carried.

[P3D]

The fast range of the MTBs is given at max speed.
They cost either as submarines or destroyers, up to the mods.

[Logi]

Ah! I see it now, I always seem to forget where the speed is located whenever I look at the chart.

Ah so its up to the mods... Can a mod tell me what a 1910 MTB costs?

[Sachmle]

Your ?carrier? is a little fast for a troop transport/CV and the armor is pointless. 0.25", 0.50"...now if you meant cm instead of inches that's a different story.

[Guinness]

MTBs cost 200% that of a normal ship, or in other words, are priced the same as subs are.

I'll clarify the ruleset sometime later today to that effect.

[Logi]

By god its the slow ship!!

Fireship, ROC Sloop laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 822 t standard; 1,071 t normal; 1,270 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   200.00 ft / 200.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 15.00 ft (normal load)
   60.96 m / 60.96 m x 9.75 m  x 4.57 m

Armament:
      2 - 7.68" / 195 mm guns in single mounts, 230.00lbs / 104.33kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 460 lbs / 209 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm

   - Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 5,092 shp / 3,798 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 448 tons

Complement:
   93 - 121

Cost:
   £0.167 million / $0.668 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 57 tons, 5.3 %
   Armour: 163 tons, 15.2 %
      - Belts: 133 tons, 12.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 19 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 202 tons, 18.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 270 tons, 25.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 321 tons, 30.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 58 tons, 5.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     565 lbs / 256 Kg = 2.5 x 7.7 " / 195 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.82
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.390
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m before break)
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.36 ft / 3.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 44.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,702 Square feet or 344 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 191 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.99
      - Overall: 0.60
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

Misc Weight:
25t Fire Control
25t Radar
8t Torpedoes (8)

[miketr]

To Logi:

Even with mount and hoist thats a big pair of guns for deck mounts.  Also they would have a massive deck foot print not sure there is the room for them.

Also this an example of a type of design that I don't think should be possible with DD/TB tech.

Slow speed, less than 25 knots and belt armor or deck armor (not that yours has it).

Its a gunboat a nice one mind you just not one I think should be built with the DD/TB tech.  Those should be off the CL tree.



Michael

[Logi]

The ship is long enough for 4 of these guns, I believe the ship should be wide enough for the gun. With a few feet left over to walk around on.

I'll retrain from commenting on your opinion of DD/TB tech.

[The Rock Doctor]

The hull - deep draught and chunky L/W ratio, but low BC - is kind of quaint for a slow ship.

[Logi]

Brought to you by the RRC megalomania since 1913 :D

Yunnan, RoC Battlecruiser laid down 1917

Displacement:
   38,000 t light; 40,116 t standard; 45,310 t normal; 49,465 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   825.00 ft / 800.00 ft x 120.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   251.46 m / 243.84 m x 36.58 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
     12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     20 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (10x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 21,475 lbs / 9,741 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
   Upper:   1.50" / 38 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 122,353 shp / 91,276 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 7,585nm at 19.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 9,350 tons

Complement:
   1,552 - 2,018

Cost:
   £7.023 million / $28.091 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,267 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 12,065 tons, 26.6 %
      - Belts: 4,726 tons, 10.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 888 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 2,401 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,721 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 329 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 4,485 tons, 9.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,442 tons, 40.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,310 tons, 16.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 740 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     60,866 lbs / 27,609 Kg = 44.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 9.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 8.8 ft / 2.7 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.551
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 33.69 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.28 ft / 6.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 67,038 Square feet or 6,228 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 214 lbs/sq ft or 1,044 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.10
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

I'll get a serious design up tomorrow.