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[ctwaterman]

1910 Motorization would be Towed Artillary not Self Propelled.

I looked and the Half Tracks first show up between 1911 and 1916 in France, Russian and the US.   And basically get used to a very limited extent in WW1.

[damocles]

Some things at which to look.

http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/2005/08/monday_musing_r.html

Let me now, in turn, try to explain to you what he told me: the total energy stored in the fuel of a rocket is known as its impulse, and is measured in pound-seconds. This means X pounds of thrust delivered for Y seconds. So, for a fuel formulation that delivers 10,000 pound-seconds of impulse, this could mean a thousand pounds of thrust for 10 seconds, or 100 pounds of thrust for 100 seconds, etc. The problem was that the fuel they were working with at the time, something called Arcite, does not burn fast enough to produce the required thrust. In other words, they needed to increase the thrust (pounds) and decrease the burning time (seconds) for Arcite. While thinking about the problem, Dr. Scurlock and others were doing some preliminary measurements of flame temperatures of various propellent formulations in the laboratory. They were using thermocouples (bi-metallic filaments) embedded in the fuel grains to do this. Now, the way that a rocket fuel grain burns is this: once ignited, the flame at the end melts the solid fuel just behind it, which then ignites in turn, melting the fuel behind it, etc. What Dr. Scurlock noticed was, that the fuel was burning faster with the thermocouple wires embedded in it. He immediately realized that if he inserted a wire made of a material which conducts heat well, like copper or silver, say, into the middle of the rocket grain, then this wire will conduct heat from the flame to the material behind it much faster, melting and igniting it. What results is a cone shape, with the point of the cone pointing inwards along the wire toward the unburned fuel. It would look something like this:

Rocket

Notice that while normally the area of the fuel which is burning is a circle at the end with an area of ?R2, with the embedded wire it is a cone shaped area with a much larger surface. Suppose the cone extends inwards into the fuel to a length twice the diameter of the rocket. Then, in terms of the radius, R, of the rocket cylinder, the surface area of the burning cone shaped area of the fuel would be:

   Surface Area = ?R sqrt (R2 + (2D)2) = ?R sqrt (R2 + (4R)2) = ?R sqrt (17R2) = ?R2 sqrt (17)

Since the square root of 17 is between 4 and 5, the surface area of the fuel that is burning at a given time in this way is 4 to 5 times greater than without the embedded wire. And indeed, after experimenting with various materials and configurations, Dr. Scurlock was able to achieve burn rates five times faster than before, which is what they needed for the Arcite fuel. By the way, the cone is just molded into the fuel grain at the beginning, allowing high thrust right from ...3, 2, 1, ignition. Such are the little breakthroughs and increments with which even rocket science is normally done.

Globe

http://oralhistories.library.caltech.edu/68/01/OH_DuBridge_2.pdf

http://www.csupomona.edu/~nova/scientists/articles/vonk.html

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Jack_Parsons

Those are examples of the bizarre ridiculous accidents and totally insane people associated with solid rocket motors just in America. Want to try some truly crazy people?  

http://www.spotmotorcycles.com/rocket-cycles-of-the-past/

Forerunner to the Hindenburg?

When Adam Opel founded the Opel Company in 1863 to make sewing machines and bicycles, he had no idea that grandson Fritz would inherit his entrepenerial spirit. He was probably rolling over in his grave, though, when 21-year old Fritz decided to marry rockets with Opel's motor vehicles.

Lucky for us, though, that's exactly what Fritz von Opel did. Fritz planned to set a landspeed record by bolting six booster rockets to his 22hp one-stroke, dubbed "The Monster".

Fritz and his cronies at the Opel Motorcycle Club managed to squeeze in a few trial runs in 1928, one of which is pictured here. But once President Paul von Hindenburg got wind of his plan, he shut Fritz down in the name of safety.

Strange then, that Hindenburg would have no problem with Opel switching gears and focusing on cars. Fritz enjoyed some spectacular success with his rocket-powered cars.

Even Robert Goddard went nuts.

Which incidentally makes me question a claim that Goddard would share his most specific work with anybody after he saw some of what he thought was some of his engineering notes show up as drawings in Herman Oberth's patents (although he, Oberth, arrived at those results independently). And remember, we are talking post 1926 here!

Even with the simplest of nitrocellulose and bees wax and aluminium or coal dust powder rockets and an open ended steel tube,  I insist you will blow yourself up like Jack Parsons actually did in 1952, until you do the necessary 1920s research in wall casings and rocket motor geometry to understand just how to handle the very dangerous uneven burn rates and the variable chamber pressures that a burning solid rocket candle exerts on that casing. In effect you will still be stuck with gunpowder rockets little better than Hale Rockets until then.  :(

D.

[Logi]

Don't care. That's the different between total government funding and private entrepreneurship.

Experiments were shut down by the government in some of your examples. Here it is encouraged.

Which incidentally makes me question a claim that Goddard would share his most specific work with anybody after he saw some of what he thought was some of his engineering notes show up as drawings in Herman Oberth's patents (although he, Oberth, arrived at those results independently). And remember, we are talking post 1926 here!

You mean sharing with the government which would incidentally credit him with it? Remember, this is not a personnel basis, it's the same as working for a nation.

Not to mention, if the nation with the scientist sends him on a research project with the RRC, I don't think it's your call to say what he will or will not share, more like the nation with the guy's call.

I insist you will blow yourself up like Jack Parsons actually did in 1952, until you do the necessary 1920s research in wall casings and rocket motor geometry to understand just how to handle the very dangerous uneven burn rates and the variable chamber pressures that a burning solid rocket candle exerts on that casing. In effect you will still be stuck with gunpowder rockets little better than Hale Rockets until then.

Insist away, won't change the fact that whilst the art is not perfect, we know how to handle rockets so they don't blow up most the time. We have experience with dud and blowing-up-rockets.

[Logi]

Ah wait, sorry.

I have Konstantin Tsiolkovsky and Hermann Oberth working on the rocket projects, it is unknown whether-or-not Goddard wants to join.

[damocles]

http://www.informatics.org/museum/tsiol.html

Tsiolkovsky was a mathematician, not an engineer. About machines he knew butkus.

http://www.biographybase.com/biography/Oberth_Hermann.html

Oberth had not even started rocket research. until 1924 The only man working in the field  is Robert Goddard and you just mow admitted that he won't work with you.   

You don't have the men you need, nor the insights until 1926 at the EARLIEST.

Black powder rockets are it until then and there is nothing like the Oberth, or von Karman/Parsons powder rockets until the 1930s at least.

You underestimate the hard dull work needed to exploit the accidents I cited, sir. There were dozens  of failures  before JATO and Tiny Tim were ready. Mendelyev went through similar failures before he got his rockets to work. Even today when we should know how, we have more failure  than success. (Russian Bulova example).

That is an entire nation that throws their resources at that one and they can't get it to work,   

I'm sorry, but there is no way that modern war rockets beyond what Goddard fiielded in 1919 was possible in 1914-1919. His work was just the culmination of what was known about black powder rockets until that time.

D.



D.

[TexanCowboy]

Ah wait, sorry.

I have Konstantin Tsiolkovsky and Hermann Oberth working on the rocket projects, it is unknown whether-or-not Goddard wants to join.

No, you don't have Oberth. I have both of them, including Oberth, who's family wars Romanian. Proof. So, please don't claim what isn't yours.

[Logi]

That is false. But then again, "have" is an incorrect term for the former.

Treaty of Macau:

Article III: The creation  of the joint research projects.
  III. A : The parties are declare the intention to break through in the fields of rocket and aircraft technology.
  III. B: The parties shall engage in joint research in the named fields, sharing, trading, and advancing together.
  III. C. The parties declare the intention of developing a Ship to Ship rocket.

PM from Blooded regarding Tsiolkovsky.

Hello,

Sorry for the delays, I will have to look into it. I don't mind your using particular persons of note, just provide them with a suitable chinese name please. I am lucky with russia lots of great inventors.

Take it easy so for not being around of late.

Also, I can not find the post now, but there was a thread by the Mods saying you cannot steal other nationalities without the approval of said nation. (will have to confirm).

@Damcoles

Keep arguing, I'm not even listening anymore. I've already answered with previous points.

[damocles]

I supply information, Logi. What you do with it, you decide. However, you do not have the means to create Stalin's organs. Not yet. As I see it, it will be 1H1924 before you can even start to field such units.    

I would argue that like radar and fire control it might actually be double time research.  

Rocketry
1910:  Black powder rockets .Comparable to light field guns in effect  but utterly unreliable and inaccurate.
1920:  The start of new rocket theories, experiments with vastly different propellants, active mechanical flight stabilization.
1926:  Experiments with liquid fueled rockets. Dependable solid fuel rocket weapon systems on light field gun level.
1935:  Solid fueled siege rockets, liquid fuel rocket weapon ystems in experimental phase.
1942:  Solid fueled area effect missile systems (Katyusha), less reliable long range liquid fuel rockets available (early A4) in small quantities.

[TexanCowboy]

Mhm, there was. It also said you needed to post those you had stolen prior to that date in your encyclopedia, which I did, in that thread in my previous post.

Work together is not the same thing as having my guys in China. No, my guy does expierimentation, and your guy does expiermientation, and they share results.

[Logi]

Hence I said, incorrect term.

[TexanCowboy]

Ah, ok.

[The Rock Doctor]

Gents,

Rocketry
1910:  Black powder rockets .Comparable to light field guns in effect  but utterly unreliable and inaccurate.
1920:  The start of new rocket theories, experiments with vastly different propellants, active mechanical flight stabilization.
1926:  Experiments with liquid fueled rockets. Dependable solid fuel rocket weapon systems on light field gun level.
1935:  Solid fueled siege rockets, liquid fuel rocket weapon ystems in experimental phase.
1942:  Solid fueled area effect missile systems (Katyusha), less reliable long range liquid fuel rockets available (early A4) in small quantities.

This is how the moderators will determine the effectiveness of rocketry in a combat setting.  Nothing else matters.

[Logi]

Quite so, this is nothing but fluff.

[TexanCowboy]

Where would the Tiny Tim fit in there? Because that seems to be where Romania is headed...

[ctwaterman]

Late 1945....

Plus you need an aircraft that can carry them